How I limit Surprises as a School Leader

How I limit Surprises as a School Leader

00:02
Daniel
Thanks for hitting play. If you love exploring how to do school differently so you can make a legendary impact on your campus, then you’re in the right place. I’m Danny Bauer, and this is the better leaders, better Schools podcast, the original Ruckus Makers show for visionary leaders, innovators, and rebels in education. Thanks to Ruckus Makers just like you, this podcast ranks in the top 0.5% of over 3 million worldwide shows. In today’s show, I speak with Dave Moffa, a proud member of the Ruckus Maker Mastermind. And you’ll love this show because listen. It talks about how Dave has grown.

00:44
Daniel
He’s going to discuss some things like building trust within his school, how to overcome feelings of overwhelm and busyness and exciting results that he’s created, like starting. A PTO at his school with the help of his fellow Mastermind members. Maybe the Ruckus Maker Mastermind is right for you if you’re leading in isolation and you would benefit from connecting with a community of leaders that get exactly what you’re going through. But they want to do school differently. They want to innovate. They want to challenge the status quo. They want to design the future of school, then maybe we’re the right community for you. We talk about how we serve school leaders, but most importantly is the idea that leading in isolation is not sustainable. So at the end of the day, get connected somewhere. Maybe it’s the Ruckus Maker Mastermind, maybe it’s somewhere else. But stop leading alone. Like I said, thanks again for listening and making this show a success. We’ll be here next with the main conversation after a few messages from our show sponsors. Hey, Ruckus Maker, I’ll make this quick. If you’re listening to this message right now, you’re missing out. When you subscribe to the Ruckus Maker newsletter on Substack, you get access to micro books focused on how to do school, different tools and other resources that will help you make a ruckus and do school different stories and case studies of the world’s most legendary ruckus, makers of all time. Access to my calendar to schedule coaching sessions, and you’ll also get bonus podcast content that won’t be released on the main podcast feed and podcast episodes without any advertisements. If you love this show, if it’s helped you grow and you want access to more tools and resources that will help you make a ruckus in school different, then become a paid subscriber at Ruckus Makers substack.com. That’s Ruckus Makers substack.com. As a principal with so much to do, you might be thinking constantly, where do I even start?

It’s a good question, and that’s why. I created a twelve month principal checklist just for you. When you download it for free, you’re going to get a twelve month checklist. That identifies general tasks that every campus will want to do each month. But the checklist also includes space where you can write campus specific items and two opportunities to reflect on what worked and what you want to continue doing and what didn’t work and what you want to change or improve. When you take action on this checklist for a year, you will have built a leadership playbook for your school, and you won’t have to reinvent the wheel or feel like a first year principal all over again. Go to betterleadersbetterschools.com principal checklist to download for free. Right now, over 1 million teachers rely on IXL because it’s empowering. It helps them make better decisions with reliable data, and it adapts instruction based on student performance. Get started [email protected] leaders. That’s ixl.com leaders. How would you like to increase student talk by an average of 40%? More student ownership, more student discourse? Check it out for yourself by trying out Teachfx. Go to teachfx.com/betterleaders to pilot their program today. When you work with guest food management services, you’re going to feel good about the food you serve your students. That’s because the food is real and it’s made from scratch and locally sourced. Learn more about Quest food management [email protected] or follow Quest food on social media. That’s questfms.com. All right. And we’re back with Dave Moffa. Now, we spoke to him in the last episode. He’s the principal at Holy Cross preparatory. Academy and just a brilliant, generous, all around awesome leader.
And so if you didn’t check out that episode, I’ll point you back in that direction. But this is the second episode we’re in. Doing, and we’re here to talk about Dave’s Mastermind experience. Dave, welcome back, I guess.

05:34
Dave
Thank you. Happy to be back.

05:36
Daniel
Definitely. Can you tell me, what was life in leadership like before you joined. The Ruckus Maker mastermind?

05:44
Dave
I don’t want to say lonely, but lonely is the word I would use. One of my mentors earlier on when. I first started taking administrative jobs and had said to me, be ready for the.Fact that it’s an isolating seat. And that’s definitely what I found a little bit of. I was lucky that I had one. A
Great team where I was like my immediate team. But outside of that, it is a Little bit of a lonely position, especially at a private school where you don’t have a district.

Even so, it’s not like you have other assistant principals or anything in. A district to collaborate with. It’s just your immediate school. So that’s kind of what it was before the Mastermind I never even thought of, because most of my experience, I went to a catholic school growing up, but all.
My teaching and administrative experience has been in the public setting. So just to reflect back, I guess when you’re in a private setting, depending on the size of the network or whatever your private system is, that could.
I’m hearing, even more isolating, because iIt’S just at school, potentially. And there’s certainly people in the building you can bounce ideas off of and people you work with and form good working relationships, friendships with. But it is limited to the building. And our building was particularly small, so even that. A very small staff. And we’re not even a diocesan school. It’s an independent school, so there’s not even any network outside of the school itself.

07:11
Daniel
Thanks for sharing that. I didn’t realize it, and that’s super helpful to know. So there’s the isolation piece, but I’m curious, was there another challenge or struggle around leadership that had you looking for something like the Mastermind?

07:24
Dave
I think for me A lot of it was also trying to find people to collaborate with.
I thought I had really good ideas. Everyone thinks their ideas are great.
They are finding somebody to kind of either validate and I think that’s what I was looking for somebody to kind of sharpen that knife a little bit and get me to a point where I can. If I think something’s great and it’s not, tell me.
Or if I think something’s great and it is, and you think, hey, if you tweak this or that could be really great, I’d like to know that, too. So finding people to kind of bounce those things off of it and kind of create my leadership personality.

08:07
Daniel
That makes sense. So that was a challenge, getting that type of feedback, especially in such a sort of smaller system. And was there like a number one goal you wanted to achieve in addition. To what we just discussed? I’m curious.

08:23
Dave
My goal was to grow as a leader. Certainly that’s the main thing, which is partly what we are just discussing there. But also then to find out how to best continue that growth. So it wasn’t just about finding people to bounce ideas off of, but also being the idea that if I’m going to have this role, I want to have a leadership role that continues to grow and continues to get better and. Isn’T just about collaborating on ideas. How do I identify professional developments or books to read, things to look into, to kind of expand my own ideas and horizons? And that’s where I think having the Mastermind brings that as part of the discussion, beyond just the collaboration, it’s ways to put all of us off of our comfort level a little bit and read something different or something that helps us all grow in that regard.

09:14
Daniel
Got it. Awesome. That’s super cool. You’re obviously very invested in your growth in addition to your Mastermind. What were you trying out, if anything?

09:25
Dave
A lot of just independent research. I was looking things up. I did actually just before joining the Mastermind. I think it was probably part of the process of joining because somebody had reached out to me and invited me to join the Mastermind personally. And from that invitation, it kind of sparked my mind of how come I’m not like cold calling, reaching out to people who I think might be helpful to me to help me learn and grow. And then I did. So after that, the next week, I. Actually I just reached out to somebody who. I knew I was a school leader at another private school, like a half hour from here and just kind of out of the blue. Hey, I’m Dave. I’m pretty new in school leadership. Would you be interested in catching up? Or talking at some point? And at this point now, that’s somebody who I’ve kept in communication with for a year and a half, and we still have occasional phone calls, Zoom meetings, emails, and it’s become somebody who I can really rely on as someone just to talk school leadership with.

10:24
Daniel
I love that. I need to add it to my calendar type of thing, and I try every two weeks to call all the coaches within the mean, we have internal meetings and that kind of stuff, but just to check in on family and that kind of thing and then if you know Jethro Jones. From the transformative principle, he and I actually speak every other Friday, too, and we’ve been doing that for years.
And just because we’re in a similar space. And to share things that are working and whatever.

10:53
Dave
So, yeah, that’s pretty cool that you’re doing that as well. So it sounds like you found out about the Mastermind not because of the podcast or my blog or books, but somebody invited you. Was that Gene who invited you? I’m taking a guess, but yeah, Gene, Who is my son’s elementary school principal. I knew him tangentially, just through the community, and then he kind of approached me and was like, I know. You’re a principal, or assistant principal at the time, at school, kind of in the area. Would you have any interest in joining. This group I’m a part of? I really knew nothing about it. I talked to him on the phone for a while about it. Then I did a kind of trial session. I joined in with one of their evenings and did the Mastermind for a night with them and really loved it and right away took it to my President and said, hey, can I use some of our professional development funding to help me grow as a leader and get me into this program full time? And they supported me 100% right away. In doing it, which was awesome.

11:56
Daniel
What was it about that visit, right, that made you say, oh, I need to advocate for myself and try to make this happen?

Dave
Well, the first session, right away, there’s a great tone. It was people from all over the Country, which was really cool. I’d never been part of any PD groups that really branched too far out of this area. The fact that we have people from the west coast, the middle of the country, the east coast, from all over, so you kind of got a lot of different perspectives and different roles, too. So people who worked at a central office, district level, like building principals, assistant principals, catholic schools, public schools, the group was a very diverse group, which I liked hearing all the different perspectives because it was new stuff to me, but they were just also super welcoming they were like the nicest people. There was a lot of laughter, like. We were joking around. It didn’t feel like you were working for an hour. It felt like you were just hanging out with your friends after work, talking about work for an hour or so. And that made it like, well, if I can do that and get better by doing that’s a pretty easy lift. That’s a funny thing. Something to look forward to, not something to have to go to, like a class. We work really hard not to crush. Your soul while you experience the mastermind.

13:15
Daniel
I’m glad that’s working for you? That’s really super interesting. Did you have any reservations or fears about joining prior to.

13:23
Dave
My biggest fear was only. Really the time commitment was I didn’t want to do it if I was only going to be halfway in. I didn’t want to just put 1ft in and not really commit to being part of the team, because I also know a big part of being successful within a group like that is I’ve got to commit to the other people. In the group that I’m going to show up and that I’m going to be there, because it’s not always going to be about me. It’s about them, too, and that side of it. So I didn’t want to make sure that it worked with my schedule, so I had to take it home to my family first to make sure that they were on board with the fact that now this hour of each week. I would be committing to doing this. And they were 100% supportive. There wasn’t even a question.

14:01

Keith, tell me a little bit more. So, I mean, if somebody listening doesn’t know, but it’s pretty much a weekly experience, and we meet on Zoom for hours. We’ve been doing that since 2015. But for somebody who’s leading a school currently, what do you think about that hour of time since that could have been a challenge? Well, for me, it was thinking about it from the side of, it’s an hour of time that I probably would spend thinking about work stuff somewhere in my day anyway. Part of it is just being smart about my time management. Then I figured if I’m going to set this hour of time aside to work on myself, and then as a byproduct of that, the school.

Then that’s an hour later at night. That I’m not going to work. Like, I’ll cut my work so that. I’m not doing work later at night because I’m counting this as an hour of work. I did work that was important and it’s about really just setting that clear boundary in my own head and in my own schedule so that I didn’T end up doing things later and consider this like a recreational activity. That was different. And so that hour should produce fruit. There should be a clear return on Investment, and there is.

I’ve come out of Mastermind meetings regularly with stuff that I bring and put right into action in A PD the next week for my faculty. So because of that, I feel like it’s very legitimately a working hour. That helps me with what’s happening in the building. Even though it is enjoyable, it’s fun. All that kind of stuff.

15:26
Daniel
Yeah, we throw a lot at you, and I’m sure you’ve implemented quite a bit, but can you remember any specific things like that you grabbed and then implemented?

Dave
Apart from all of the hot seat type activities where I’ve been able. To legitimately bounce ideas off of people. But one of the big things I’ve used is a lot of the opening activities that we do in the Mastermind Group are things that then if they relate to a topic that I know is on our PD calendar, then I’ll. Take that and sub it right into the opening activity for my PD at school here for the day that we’re going to talk about something similar. So there was a day that were doing something related to a little bit of a very surface level, inclusive conversation, kind of PD talking a lot about identity questions and getting to know people and there was a video we had used as an introductory thing for the Mastermind session and just some reflective questions on it that I was like, well. That is a perfect segue into what. I wanted to do this in PD. I’m going to take that and I’m going to use that as my intro for the PD also. And that was really nice that I didn’T have to think about that at work. Then next week, how am I going to start the PD? It was set, it was done. I had everything.

16:38
Daniel
Were there any surprises when you joined the Mastermind? There were definitely surprises in the sense that some of the time that it gets a little bit more laid back and relaxed and we can just joke around with each other in a way. That it’s not all work. And even before everyone’s winter break, we had a Mastermind session where everyone kind of said, look, we know it’s right before everyone’s break. Do we want to meet? Do we not want to meet, or do we want to meet and just. Make it like a game night where. We’re not going to go over anything.But someone’s going to run like a Trivia thing or something for everybody? We just went with that. We just hung out and something. So things like that, I didn’t expect it to become that communal in that regard, which was awesome, though, because it makes it then more spiritual in the other way, too.

17:29
Daniel
I need to talk to Gene. Where’s my invite for trivia night. They’re always the coaches who want me to come and work and teach and do something, and I’m like, I could have played a game that would have been. Awesome, but that’s really cool. And what I love about that is the groups have a lot of, I think, autonomy and space to make it their own. And so that’s really cool that you all innovated that and made it fun. And I think school leadership is a very important job.

17:58
Dave
Obviously the stakes are high and it’s serious work, but we don’t have to take ourselves so seriously all the time. I’m glad, right, that you get results, but it’s also fun to be a part of that’s really pretty neat.

18:11
Daniel
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Daniel
So you had to figure out funding there each week. Is there anything else in terms of that made it hard potentially, to, quote unquote, use the Mastermind? For me, honestly, the other hardest part is just, it’s almost just a weird situation of the fact that I’m in a private school, and so much of a private school is marketing and perception and trying to market your school.

21:30
Dave
When I go into a group. There are other principals and people in this group from my area, too. Really having to buy in and trust the fact, all right, this is a safe space where we’re all talking from this level. I’m not worried about what I say. Here about a problem I’m trying to deal with at my school is going to be something that you’re going to then take out to the community, and now we lose enrollment because there’s this idea out there about our school. So it almost was just having to really trust from my end because it was, of course, true within the group, but I had to buy into that. And trust that this really was going to be that kind of safe space. Where I could do that. I’ve been in it for. A long time now, and there’s never been an issue. It’s not even a question.

22:11
Daniel
That’s because they don’t want the chief. Ruckus Maker and his army of assassins to show up on your door if you don’t keep things private, that trust.
That psychological safety is so important.

22:25
Dave
That’s the thing. Leaders need a space to share when they’ve messed up, when they don’t know what the next step is. Because if you think about that within a district, it’s really hard to have that conversation with a supervisor who’s evaluating you or a board or whatever. And that doesn’t help you figure it out. It just makes it worse. So where do you go?
Could say, like, this is the real stuff, what can I do? And to have that kind of assistance. And support is super invaluable.

23:02
Daniel
This may seem like a weird question, but I always ask it because there’s.
Some interesting, sometimes interesting stories on the other side of it.
Did you ever feel like you wanted to quit?And if so, how did you overcome it?

23:14
Dave
I would say the only time that. I would feel like I wanted to quit, just because of other things going on in my own personal life and work life, overwhelmed with time and busyness. And I’m thinking, really, am I going to spend this time at night doing this instead? And so I definitely did have that. Thought at one point where maybe I just need to and not even quit. But take a break and come back some other time when things calm down. But things don’t come down.

So that whole mindset is kind of a flawed mindset because there’s always going to be something, and it’s just about. How am I prioritizing my time and what do I see as most important. I think for me, it came down to, I don’t need to step out of it entirely to feel like it’s not an extra thing to do. If it’s something that I really need to spend that hour doing something else, people in my group at this point. Would understand enough that I could say.
Hey, I’m not going to make it this week, that’s fine. And I think I’m okay with that made me feel okay with, all right, well, I’m going to keep going.
And then unless I really physically am unable to do this for an extended period of time, there’s no reason for me to jump out just because I’m a little overwhelmed. I can take it week by week, day by day.

24:31
Danie
Got it. It’s so interesting. I’m glad you pointed this out. It never slows down.So it’s really an adjustment of mindset in realizing, oh, this is actually an Hour for me, and it is fun. And it gives me energy versus depletes me and that kind of thing.

24:47
Daniel
How about the most exciting result you ever achieved? What would you consider that?

24:53
Dave
That’s tough because I do think that I’ve gotten a lot of good things. From it right now because it’s pressing or it’s top of mind right now. One of the things I got out of the Mastermind was having the group help me come up with how to create and start a PTO, not have an official parents organization of any kind. It was definitely something that was a pain point for the students and the parents that we needed something. And I had surveyed the parents and they felt very clearly that we needed something.

But I didn’t have experience starting a PTO or what to do with it. I crowdsourced that information by taking it to my Mastermind group as a
Hot topic of, tell me how your PTOs run. What kind of bylaws do you guys use, what type of information I need, and people sent me tons of stuff.
And then even set me up with meetings with their PTO presidents so that.
I could learn from them and then now at this point, we have established a PTO at our school. And it’s really in its infancy, but it’s up and running, at least, and we have executive board members, and it’s starting so that for the future students here, they’ll have a parent support group hat can do a lot of awesome things in the school that I think would have been beneficial years before as well. And now others will get to see that kind of come to fruition.
That’s fascinating. It’s so fascinating you bring that up because I think a lot of people would just assume every campus has some type of parent organization. And then if you find yourself leading a campus that doesn’t, what do you do? That’s like most people just think, oh, it’s there. So the fact that you had this group and you could say, hey, what are the bylaws?
How do you organize this kind of stuff? And now you’re getting one up and running.

26:39
Daniel
Very fascinating. Thank you for sharing that. Any other type of milestones that you think are relevant you’d like to share?

Dave
I do think that another element of working with the PTO or not PTO, working with the Mastermind that has helped me here at the school is managing. It’s my first year as a principal, so there’s a lot of things that. I am experiencing it for the first time. That there are others that have experienced already, or at least they know what I’m going through to some degree. So when I have questions or things catch me off guard, it’s helpful tAnd without fail, there’s a whole group. Of people there who say, like, oh, I remember that. And this, all of a sudden, I Have a bunch of other perspectives, and I feel like, all right, I’m going to get through this. Then, too. They got through this and they’re doing great. It helps me kind of anticipate problems. Better to be able to bounce things.Off of people who have done it before. So I think, especially as a young Administrator or a new administrator, someone who I’ve been an assistant principal before this. But once you’re in the principal seat. There’S things that come up you didn’t even know about.

27:47
Daniel
Yeah, it’s a little different.

27:48
Dave
So having that, I think it’s very helpful in this type of situation. That’s so good. I love to say that the hot seat, but it’s not just the hot seat. Even through book discussion or tips of. The week or whatever, it helps leaders become more proactive because you are a part of this robust conversation saying, okay. These are things I should be planning for. I didn’t even realize this is a thing in education. And now you have an awareness about. It doesn’t catch you off guard as much. And even from the sense of, like. If it’s not someone else on the Hot seat, the thing they’re bringing up. Might be something that 100% relates to. Something I’m dealing with. Then hearing everyone’s feedback that ends up helping me. But especially for somebody who’s new and you’Re in the weeds and you can get overwhelmed so fast, or you just.
Feel like you start to have maybe the imposter syndrome of should I really.
Be in this position? Or if any of that stuff starts to come up. I think the beginning of the sessions when we go through, like, wins of the week, that’s huge for somebody in this type of position to purposefully take time to reflect on, oh, what was something really good I did last week, too. And that just brings you into a really positive mental space. Leaders need to slow down our space is unabashedly pro principle. And there’s not going to be a lot of places that are just for you. Team Dave wants you to succeed no matter what and the Mastermind is certainly that. So how would you say life in leadership is different now? And why is that important? Definitely confidence. I feel very confident in what I do, even if it’s not the right decision at the end of the day. At the end of the day, you’re going to make some wrong decisions or make some mistakes. But I feel confident in taking action. And the actions that I do because. Even if it doesn’t go well, I’m going to have the ability to adjust or to drop back and punt and change things, and I’m going to feel comfortable with the people I have in my corner to help me do that. I feel very good about that. Elements of my confidence have improved. I also feel like I am more well rounded. The books, I think help a lot with that because there are some of the books that have been chosen or that we’ve been reading that either I wouldn’t have read about that topic as much previously, or even maybe I completely disagree with the angle of the author, but that has gotten me thinking, because now I’m reading something that I disagree with and it makes me think more about, well, why do I disagree with it? What do I think then? So I think those books have helped me feel way more well rounded in my thought processes.

30:33
Daniel
That’s great. What a result. Now that you’ve had some success in The Mastermind, what are you excited about next?

30:39
Dave
I am excited about taking it to the level of getting beyond some basic Implementation type of stuff as a first year principal, where it’s alright, I’ve done things, some work better than others, so maybe not as much. Now I want to get to the point where I can look back at stuff that’s happened and make tweaks or start to. I know something. You talk about the idea of getting into the automatic school idea of getting into having that school where things can run on their own a little bit more. I want to help use the Mastermind. To help me get to that level where I can be more comfortable delegating. More and getting more into people’s hands that I think then I trust and just run them, and then I can. Actually step out and look at more systems level more frequently. I think that’d be kind of the next step for me.

31:27
Dave
Yeah, I’m glad you brought that up, but I’m definitely not going to get super nerdy about that. It’s a new concept, this automatic school thing. There’s a book that’s coming out on that topic. It’ll be out in about a year. Maybe by the time this show goes live, it’ll be out. But in the Mastermind, one way we.
Hope to just add more value if we’ve rebranded the old principle success path. And now we’ve turned it into a. Three stage process where people learn about building their self sort of leadership and optimizing that. And I call that the lead domino stage. Second stage, the ripple effect stage, that’s nurturing relationships to build a world class culture. And then the third stage is the. Big picture stage, which is about systems, strategic thinking, and mental models. And when you get that all together. Everybody on campus is so empowered. You get this automatic school where it’s.
Basically running itself and that curriculum is included in Mastermind membership. I’m really excited to be developing. That and offering it, and it’s going. To be bite sized, too. It sounds like a big idea, but it’s really just A video or two per month that’s easily digestible, aligned with a tool. If you take action on the idea, you’ll get the result. Plus a group coaching call in case you have any questions about the idea. And the tool so that we could get you to that automatic school faster. I had no idea you bring that up.

Daniel
I didn’t even know you’ve been paying attention. That’s really exciting for me because that means it’s worthy. Awesome, very cool. I think just in the last couple. Of questions, what advice would you have? For somebody just like you, Dave, in the same situation, before you join the Mastermind, what would you tell them?

33:16
Dave
Find a network of people that you can collaborate with, that you can get support from, or that you can even support them. Finding that network is key. And don’t be afraid to put yourself out of your comfort zone to do it because it’s not going to be comfortable. It’s very easy to fall back into, “Now that I’m in charge or now that I’m in a leadership role, I have to come up with all these answers” and just get stuck nose to the grindstone working on it, instead of taking a step back and saying, “I don’t. Let’s find people who could help me find the answer. Who is not awesome.

Daniel
If you could describe the Mastermind experience in one word or one phrase, so. You could have more than one word, how would you describe it?

Dave
I would use a phrase from Bart simpson. Work smarter, not harder, that’s what it comes down to. Work smarter, not harder. Why spend 6 hours a night on your own trying to solve things when you can come to a group of people for an hour, bounce ideas off people, learn from other people, grow personally, grow professionally, and all of a sudden, everybody’s better off.
Work smarter.

34:28
Daniel
So this is a nice sort of. Ending to the show because we started. Off talking about your private school, and my first through 8th grade was in a catholic school. I remember 6th grade basketball. St. Thomas of Villanova going to practices. And just in the car I would put on the tape and I’d listen to do the Bartman. I love that song so much. And I think I’m going to play it and dance a little bit too. That song after the show. So thank you, Dave, for joining me. Is there anything else you want to share before signing off here?

35:07
Dave
That’s pretty much it. I would definitely say thank you, creating this environment for us. I do think it is something that’s been really beneficial for me personally.

35:16
Daniel
Awesome. You’re welcome. Thanks.

35:21
Daniel
Thanks for listening to the Better Leaders Better Schools Podcast. Ruckus Maker. How would you like to lead with confidence, swap exhaustion for energy, turn your critics into cheerleaders and so much more? The Ruckus Maker Mastermind is a world class leadership program designed for growth minded school leaders just like you. Go to betterleadersbetterschools.com/Mastermind, learn more about our program and fill out the application. We’ll be in touch within 48 hours to talk about how we can help you be even more effective. And by the way, we have cohorts that are diverse and mixed up. We also have cohorts just for women in leadership and a bipoc only cohort as well. When you’re ready to level up, go to betterleadersbetterschools.com/Mastermind and fill out the application. Thanks again for listening to the show. Bye for now and go to make a ruckus.