Lead With Two Rules: Nurturing Trust and Building Connections In Education

Lead With Two Rules:
Nurturing Trust and Building Connections In Education

00:02
Daniel
Thanks for hit and play. If you love exploring how to do school different so you can make a legendary impact on your campus, then you’re in the right place. My name is Danny Bauer, and this is the better leaders, better Schools podcast, the original Ruckus Maker podcast for visionary leaders, innovators, and rebels in education. Thanks to Ruckus makers just like you, this show ranks in the top zero 5% of over 3 million worldwide shows. In today’s conversation, I speak with Brenda Yoho, who wrote the book lead with two rules. We cover topics like the importance of every student having at least one caring adult, why you can’t do it all on your own, and the only two rules you need to follow as a school leader.

00:52
Daniel
So once again, thanks for listening, and we’ll be right back after a quick message from our show sponsors. Hey Ruckus Maker. I’ll make this quick. If you’re listening to this message right now, you’re missing out. When you subscribe to the Ruckus Maker newsletter on Substack, you get access to microbooks focused on how to do school different tools and other resources that will help you make a ruckus and do school different stories and case studies of the world’s most legendary ruckus, makers of all time. Access to my calendar to schedule coaching sessions, and you’ll also get bonus podcast content that won’t be released on the main podcast feed and podcast episodes without any advertisements.

01:44
Daniel
So if you love this show, if it’s helped you grow and you want access to more tools and resources that will help you make a ruckus and do school different, then become a paid subscriber at ruckusmakers substack.com. That’s Ruckusmakers substack.com. As a principal with so much to do, you might be thinking constantly, where do I even start? It’s a good question, and that’s why I created a twelve month principal checklist just for you. When you download it for free, you’re going to get a twelve month checklist that identifies general tasks that every campus will want to do each month. But the checklist also includes space where you can write campus specific items and two opportunities to reflect on what worked and what you want to continue doing and what didn’t work, and what you want to change or improve.

02:41
Daniel
When you take action on this checklist for a year, you will have built a leadership playbook for your school, and you won’t have to reinvent the wheel or feel like a first year principal all over again. Go to betterleadersbetterschools.com principal checklist to download for free. Right now. Over 1 million teachers rely on IXL because it’s empowering. It helps them make better decisions with reliable data, and it adapts instruction based on student performance. Get started [email protected]. Leaders. That’s ixl.com leaders. How would you like to increase student talk by an average of 40%? More student ownership, more student discourse? Check it out for yourself by trying out Teachfx. Go to teachfx.com betterleaders to pilot their program today. When you work with quest food management services, you’re going to feel good about the food you serve your students.

03:47
Daniel
That’s because the food is real and it’s made from scratch and locally sourced. Learn more about Quest food management [email protected] or follow Quest food on social media. That’s questfms.com. All right. And Brenda, welcome to the show.

04:09
Brenda
Oh, thanks, Danny, for having me. I appreciate it.

04:12
Daniel
Yeah, I appreciate you. You do good work. I just want to start off with gratitude as well. You’re certainly a connector. And I want to talk about this and riff on it just really here quickly on the onset of the call, because Adam Grant talks about givers and takers. You’re a giver, right? You certainly are a giver. And you create good things and value for everybody in your network. And you’re just super generous. And so I really admire that about you and appreciate it. So that being said, let’s dive into the main conversation. But I want to start off with you telling us a story of a third grade girl who is just absolutely devastated by a teacher. Bring us to that moment.

04:56
Brenda
Yeah, third grade girl, and she’s experiencing death for the very first time. And so it takes her away from school for about a week, and she comes back and she’s facing taking a math test. And she fails it, of course, because she’s missed out a lot of important steps in math and you know how valuable that is. And so the teacher says, take it home. Have it signed by her parent. So she does. She takes it home. Here’s the problem. If she’s at home, her mom signs it and she doesn’t like the way it looks, the mom doesn’t. So she erases it and she signs it again, still not liking the way it looks. She erases it one more time. And finally the girl is saying, mom, please, I’ve got to walk to school. I’ve got to go.

05:48
Brenda
So the little girl takes the test paper. And there’s lots of students around the desk, and she places it on the desk. Not wanting to interrupt, the teacher walks quietly back to her desk. Before she gets there, the teacher raises up the test and says, brenda, it looks like you’ve signed this test and not your mom. She’s very shy. I was as a surga student and terrified at that moment. And she tells me to go out to the hallway. Everybody’s looking at me, and she tells me she’s going to call home. And I’m telling her I don’t want her to call home, but she’s thinking I’m admitting guilt, but I’m not. She gets the other teacher involved. So now both classrooms were looking at me. And luckily for me, my older sister was at home, and she’s the one who received a phone call.

06:39
Brenda
So my older sister comes to school, has a conversation with the teacher. I have no idea what they say, but the teacher never says anything to me. Here was the secret that I was holding. My parents were uneducated. They had no idea about school. They didn’t know anything about reading. But my mom knew how to write her name, and it was beautiful handwriting, and she had such an honor and held teachers in such high esteem that she wanted to be perfect for the teacher. And I didn’t want my mom to be embarrassed. And at that moment, I sure didn’t feel good, and I sure didn’t feel safe, which is why you find that on my book, not feeling good and not feeling safe, which is how I felt as I went through elementary and middle school.

07:26
Brenda
And I didn’t really start to feel good about school or safe until I got to high school, when I found some high school teachers who really took it interested me. So I don’t know about you, Danny, and how you felt about school, but that’s kind of how I felt for a while.

07:42
Daniel
Right. What was it about high school where you said the teachers took an interest in you? What did that look like and feel like, I guess.

07:51
Brenda
Yeah. So I had a business teacher, actually two of them. But really my typing teacher, she was just such a kind hearted individual, and she smiled and just was so generous with what she was giving out to everybody. And she had been through cancer. And so I saw her as somebody who had, my grandmother had passed away from cancer, and I saw her as just a person who just loved life, and she loved people. And she would always say, well, brenda, you can stay in here and help me if you want, and you can help me do this. And so I just latched onto her, and the positive interactions with her made me feel better about people and being part of the community.

08:38
Daniel
Yeah, got it. We appreciate you bringing to that moment. And what do you think? How did that influence you now as an adult? Right. Obviously, you wrote the book, lead with two rules, and we’ll dig into that. But how. Those early experiences, elementary, middle, that weren’t so good, and then high school, that got a bit better, and you became this wonderful educator and that kind of thing. But, yeah. Can you connect some dots for us?

09:05
Brenda
Yeah. So, my parents were givers. They loved to give to other people, and I had a church family that did the same, and then I finally found educators that did the same. I think it instilled in me that I wasn’t the only person who was feeling not safe and not good, because all of a sudden, I started seeing other people who were not feeling good and not feeling safe. When you transition from grade levels, a lot of things happen. There’s different things that happen to kids at different levels with your hormones and different things. Another incident that I didn’t put in the book that happened with us in high school is that bullying was really prevalent with our school, and we had a young man who was in my journalism class who hung himself.

10:01
Daniel
Oh, my.

10:01
Brenda
The teacher that was leading that class was his next door neighbor who found him.

10:07
Daniel
Oh, gosh.

10:08
Brenda
And I think that was probably one of the biggest turning points for me, is that I realized, okay, there’s lots of other people who are not feeling good and feeling safe, and we’ve got to do something about this. And so then I started thinking a little bit differently about that. Okay. It’s not just me. It’s other people, too. And I think it had a big impact on me moving forward. Yeah.

10:37
Daniel
And that forms sort of the basis, the framework for your book lead with two rules. Those two rules have to do of feeling good and feeling safe. I read the book, and I think I have an understanding of what that means. But as the author, how do you define that concept of feel good and feel safe?

10:55
Brenda
Well, if you look at Maslow’s hierarchy of needs, if you look at all of those things, you put them all together. It really is the concept of feeling like if we want to meet what we’re searching for in life, we want to feel happy, we want to feel good about ourselves, we want to feel good about the people that we’re with, and we definitely want to feel safe in every place we go. And I think that if we look at ourselves as a society if we think about the roles we have as a society, all of those roles are put into place to make us feel good about ourselves and to feel safe. Narrow that down to the school.

11:36
Brenda
All of the roles that we have in school, all of those are associated with helping us to feel good and happy and helping us feel safe. And we think about, as parents and grandparents, the roles we put in place in our homes is to ensure their children are feeling good about who they are and who they’re trying to because we know that they have struggles with that sometimes and that they’re feeling safe. And I think that I really gave that so much thought as I became an educator. Now, I didn’t first start out as an educator. I started out in the medical field as a secretary, really, and I went back to school to become a teacher, and I worked as a teaching assistant first. And I started seeing lots of kids with so many issues.

12:28
Brenda
And I just continued to build on my philosophy with two rules and really how to build those trusting relationships and what we needed to do to help meet the needs of our children that were serving. So really, it really just comes down to, instead of just telling kids all of these things is to really just help them with understanding what we are trying to do, we’re trying to help them to feel delusional. Okay? So I think that the most important thing is we need to understand is that kids get angry if they get called to the office and say that they’re going to be suspended from school, breaking a rule when nobody clarifies to them exactly what this process is. I think that’s a big, huge piece that’s missing.

13:18
Brenda
Two roles is now a replacement for saying that kids are not going to be held accountable or responsible for actions that they take. Everybody has a choice that we make every single day with everything that we do. And that’s what tool rules is about, choices. And we work on explaining those choices. And there’s a process of what we do in helping kids to work through that and understanding the difference between responding and reacting. When you react to a situation and you’re using your emotions, we’re helping kids to understand how to regulate those emotions when we need to take a step back and that it’s important that they need to feel good and safe, but so does everybody else.

14:11
Brenda
And we need to take the time to process in order to solve the problem that we’re dealing with is huge for the kids to be able to see all of that. And I’ve worked in a rural community, and I’ve worked in a large unit, district community, and it’s worked in all of those systems. And I’ve seen big changes with kids and parents and communities.

14:39
Daniel
Can you maybe tell us a story of one of those changes? Because conceptually I get what you’re talking about. Right. But can you bring us to a moment or paint a picture of working with a student and seeing that change and that transformation?

14:54
Brenda
So, for example, there’s several stories in the book. I’ll tell one that’s maybe not in the book.

15:00
Daniel
Yeah, that’s great.

15:01
Brenda
Young man. Yeah. A young man who is angry, and he comes in and right off the bus and they’re going in the breakfast line, and he’s upset, and he punches the kid in front of him and he’s sent to the office. So we sit him down. The very first thing that we do is I say, so tell me, were you part of the problem or part of the solution? And I wait. The wait time is important because you need to give people an opportunity to think and to process. So he thinks. And he says, well, as part of the problem, because I know I’m not supposed to punch or hit other people, but I was mad. I was angry, and I am still mad and angry. So I pose the next question. How do you think he feels?

16:05
Brenda
Well, he probably is mad because I punched him, but I want him to know what he did was mean. I said, okay, does he know what he did? Did you tell him what he did? And he said, well, no, I punched him. Now, this is an elementary student. This is a fourth grade student. This is a fourth grade student. I said, okay, do you see the problem that we have? I said, he doesn’t know why you punched him. So what do you think we need to do next? So that’s how we do the problem solving that. We walk through that and we get to the point where he’s processing the whole situation. We get to the point where then we get the other student and we’re able to talk through together. Now, is he still in trouble for punching the student? Yes.

17:03
Brenda
Does he understand he’s in trouble? Yes. Does he know what he needs to do the next time? Yes. Is it going to happen right away? Well, no. We’ve got to work on self regulating those incidents and those emotions, but it’s a process. And I can tell you that these kids followed me. I ended up with them in middle school because I was an elementary principal. Then I went to the middle school, and he did. He got butter as he got older because he continued with that process. But that’s just one incident. But there’s graphs in the book where it shows a girl working through a process with a student that was budding her. And I had a whiteboard in my office. I let her work through it and map it out so she could see the different ways that she could solve her problem.

17:59
Brenda
One of the things that we wanted to make sure kids understood on meditate first day was that were going to work to earn her trust. They needed to identify someone in the building to be a trusted adult for them. That’s huge.

18:13
Daniel
It is huge.

18:13
Brenda
Kids need to have.

18:14
Daniel
I think there’s some research around how often students actually feel totally disconnected, like there’s not even one caring adult. And that breaks my heart. How can you be in a school that you think it’s filled with educators who love being around kids, helping kids, opening doors, right? Building these better futures, helping them get to the next step, to see a reality that, yes, I’m not connected to any, nobody in this building cares about me. That’s absolutely a tragedy and some that needs to be addressed, right? Every kid should have, at least, at a minimum, one person that they know really loves them, cares about them, wants them to be a success. What I love about your story, too, with the boy who’s angry and communicated his frustration with the peer, probably in an inappropriate way.

19:05
Daniel
But what’s nice is that there was a blend of compassion, a blend of let’s unpack what happened there, right? The problem solution framing is like it takes two to tango. So what part did you play in all of this and help them see there’s another way, right? You had this certain kind of feeling. You wanted to communicate it. You communicated it poorly. You’re going to get a consequence for that choice, but for the next time, how can we address it? And you masterfully walk through the student through that. So I really appreciate that concrete example. I think here’s probably a good place to pause just for a second to get some messages in from our sponsors. But when we come back, I think where I want to jump off is what’s at risk when we don’t meet that individual student right in the moment.

19:57
Daniel
Because it might feel like a lot. There’s a lot of kids going through a lot of things, but we have to meet them as individuals. So we’ll be back. You know, something that drove me nuts as a ruckus maker was hearing teachers say, I taught it and the students should have learned it, but really some teachers just don’t know how to reteach so that all kids get it. That’s where IXL comes in. IXL’s diagnostic automatically identifies knowledge gaps for teachers and provides them with a personalized growth plan for each individual student. Teachers can step into the classroom every day knowing what their students know and what they don’t. IXL’s adaptive platform makes differentiating instruction easy. As students learn, IxL adjusts to the right level of difficulty for each individual. Close knowledge gaps and accelerate learning with IXL. Get started [email protected].

20:57
Daniel
Slash leaders that’s ixL.com slash leaders. In post pandemic classrooms, student talk is crucial. And when classrooms come alive with conversation, teachers and students both thrive. TeachFX helps teachers make it happen the TeachFX instructional coaching app provides insights into student talk, effective questions, and classroom conversation. Quality TeachFX professional development complements the app and empowers teachers with best practices for generating meaningful student discourse. Teachers using TeachFX increase their student talk by an average of 40%. Imagine that, 40% more ownership over the class by students. Ruckus makers can pilot teachfx with their teachers. Visit teachfx.com betterleaders to learn how. That’s teachfx.com betterleaders. For some students, the meal or two you serve them, that’s going to be it. That’s what they get for the day. Which means we’ve got to get this right.

22:11
Daniel
Quest food management services elevates the student dining experience, serving scratch made meals using high quality ingredients that are sourced locally and responsibly. Now, you might be thinking, okay, Danny, I get it, the food’s high quality. But do the students eat it and enjoy it? Bottom line, students love the food. And Quest is one of the fastest growing companies in the school food service industry and has been consistently ranked in the top 50 food service providers by food management magazine. Learn more about Quest food management [email protected], or follow Quest food on social media. That’s questfms.com. All right. And here we are back with Brenda Yoho, who wrote lead with two rules. Ruckus maker approved. So check out the book. Very good. Those two rules are about feeling good and feeling safe.

23:09
Daniel
And where I’d like to start off know you painted a picture earlier before the break of this student who made a bad choice, right? And you helped him work through it. There’s a lot of individual student, you know what I mean? There’s a lot of kids. Last school campus, I led 1800 students. That’s a lot. But if I feel like that’s too much or whatever. If I’m not invested in working with individual students, what’s at risk if I don’t take that type of time? Right?

23:38
Brenda
Yeah. And Dean, that’s perfect example of you’ve got 1800 students. So you need to build a team that can help with working with that many students. So in the book, I talk about how you develop the team, an intervention team that you would be able to divide your students and be able to identify when students are having an issue or if there is an issue that they need to talk to someone developing those trust issues. But as a principal, it’s your responsibility to make sure that kids are being taken care of, being seen, being heard. The whole foundation of what we need to do is to build that self awareness and social awareness. That’s a key foundation. On page, I think it’s like 73 or 76. In my book, there’s a chart about resiliency resources for kids.

24:38
Brenda
If schools would take a look at those twelve resources and then take a checklist and see if you’re addressing those, then that’s the first step in making sure that your school is dealing with what you’re referring to. Danny, perfectly. Make sure that you’re addressing all of those issues, because those kids need those resiliency skills in order to be successful both in social awareness but also academically. Everything gets better, like you say, when leaders get better, but everything gets better when we get better at serving those that we’re supporting. And I think that we can when we’re smart about what we’re doing, because you can’t do it all. When you’re the principal of 1800, you can’t.

25:25
Daniel
I think that was really well said, and I’m glad you brought up the point that it really matters that you build a team, especially if you have a really big building. But even in smaller buildings, sometimes they don’t have the administrative support, too. So you got to figure out how to do that. It takes a village is the african proverb, right? To raise a child. So that’s a really good point. How do you talk to your faculty, too, who might think, Brenda, this is one more thing, right, to add to the plate. How do you address that concern or criticism?

25:57
Brenda
Okay, so, yeah, I don’t want it to be one more thing for the teachers or for anyone. So when I started this, I didn’t make it one more thing. So the very first time that I led the school to introduce this, I dismissed all the teachers. I had 602 middle school students, 6th, 7th, and 8th grade in the gym. I told the teachers to leave, and this was a very troubled school. They were known for having multiple fights every day. They had three different gangs. It was a very troubled school. I’ll paint that picture. So nobody moved when they said, everybody just leave for a few? No, but none of the teachers moved. Nobody moved. And I said, no, really, I just want to talk to the kids. Finally, some brave teachers stood up, and then they started to leave.

26:44
Brenda
And I told the kids when they left, they were still hanging out in the hallway. I could still see them. They said they don’t trust me yet, but that’s what I want to talk to you about. It’s about trust. I need to earn your trust just as much as I need to earn the teacher’s trust. That’s what I’m doing here today. I want to let you know that we are about building trust starting today. And I’m only going to tell you that I only have two rules, and this is what they are. Everybody is going to feel good about being here. Everybody’s going to feel safe. I’m only going to ask you to ask these questions of yourselves. Before you say anything, ask yourself, is this going to make me feel good? Is it going to make others feel good?

27:32
Brenda
Then ask yourself before you do anything, is this going to make me feel safe? Is it going to make others feel safe? If the answer is no to any of those questions, you’ve identified a problem in need of a solution. I am hoping that you will come to me or one of the other people in this building who will be a trusted adult for you so we can help you with solving the problem. That’s how we started, Danny. I didn’t make any expectations for anybody to do anything other than just that. I started with the students first, and then we just repeated that, and I started with, you can choose to be part of the problem or part of the solution. The choice is always yours to make. It’s your choice. It’s not my choice.

28:20
Brenda
It’s not your teacher’s choice, it’s not your friend’s choice. It’s not your parents choice. It’s your choice. So when you make the decision, you make that choice. It’s you that’s accountable and responsible for the choice. So if you decide that you’re going to hit your friend or whoever you’re mad at, then you are the one who’s responsible, not anybody else. So that’s how we started. And I would just say that in the hallways, hey, are you having a good day? Making good choices? Are you part of the problem or solution today? That’s how we started. I didn’t ask anybody to do one more thing, just the students.

29:04
Daniel
How did those students respond to that message?

29:07
Brenda
They did. Well, I gave an example that if I was speeding, I would get a ticket and I would possibly have to pay a fine or the worst consequence if I was speeding and hit someone and I hurt someone or possibly killed someone. That’s a big responsibility and a big accountability. So we have to remember those things when we make choices.

29:35
Daniel
What I appreciate what you’re sharing here, whether it’s ownership of choices, you’re empowering students and ultimately staff, you’re making things simple too, right? Like feel good, feel safe. You’re part of the problem or solution. The sort of meta thing going on here that I’ll break down for the ruckus maker is leadership is about sort of choosing edges on a continuum, right? Problem, solution, feeling good or not feeling good, feeling safe or feeling unsafe. And I do that a lot as well. And probably the most frequent one I do is like, do you want to be a played safe principal, maintaining the status quo? Do you want to be a ruckus maker, right? A visitor from the future, showing us how education will be one day? You’re evolving, you’re making it better, but there’s beauty in that simplicity, you know what I mean?

30:23
Daniel
And it allows people, okay, I’m for this or not. And again, there’ll be then consequences based on those choices. But I’m guessing a lot of play and safe principals don’t listen. I don’t know why they would listen to this podcast or work with me, right? If they consider themselves somebody, that education is fine. I’m not saying everything’s broken. I’m saying it should evolve, right? So anyways, just want to highlight, like, I really appreciate what you’re doing there with the simplicity and the choices and the edges. I think the last sort of book question I have, well, actually, let me reframe it and sort of ask you, did I miss anything? The book has a lot in it and we’ve discussed quite a bit.

31:04
Daniel
Is there anything in there that you wish we would have talked about before we close out and get to the same questions I ask all my guests.

31:12
Brenda
I just think that as a ruckus maker, I think this book speaks to you because your focus is on addressing first the social, emotional, mental health needs of your students. Because if you don’t do those things first, if you play it safe and go with what the status quo is for education by just looking at just academics first, then you’re never going to get to the success level you want it to be. I think that you want to take this risk and you want to do a program like this, because everything I’m going to tell you, Danny, everything will get better. It really will. When you address these simplicity of the two roles. First, because it did with the schools that I had worked in, they all got better academically as well as with their behavior and with their approach.

32:07
Brenda
With everything that they were doing, it got better.

32:10
Daniel
Yeah, I think maybe. Tell me if you disagree. But I think it’s like, hey, don’t miss the forest for the trees type of thing. And something that I talk about with ruckus makers is like, you can spend time putting out fires, and you might need to initially do that new to a building or new to your ruckus maker awakening, so to speak. But instead of the fire fighting, why don’t we figure out why the fires are starting in the first place and deal with root issues? And that’s what lead with root two rules does. Right. And when you set that foundation of safety, the way I talk about it in my mastermind book, is the idea of belonging. Right. These are similar concepts, but once you have that as the starting point, now you can really achieve some great things.

32:55
Daniel
And if you’re all about the outcomes, at first, it’s inputs that lead to outcomes. And if you get any success, and it’s going to be short lived. Right. If you want to have extended results over time and longevity. Right. You got to focus on the right thing. So I think that’s what we’re talking about.

33:15
Brenda
Perfectly said, danny, perfectly brilliant.

33:18
Daniel
Well, Brenda, I’m excited to hear if you could put a message on all school marquees around the world for a single day, what would Brenda’s message be?

33:27
Brenda
I think it would be, together we can be the solution. Home, school and community. I think together we can be the solution.

33:36
Daniel
Makes sense.

33:36
Brenda
It takes the team.

33:37
Daniel
And if you were building your dream school, and you’re not limited by any types of resources, your only constraint was your ability to imagine, when building this dream school, what would be your three guiding principles?

33:51
Brenda
I think it would be three c’s. Connected, caring and clarity. And connected would be. I’d want the school to be designed so that it would meet the needs of all of the students in the families. So we know that it’s going to take our team, not only our school, but also these outside agencies that can come in and help us with meeting the needs that we can’t do as educators. So that’s one of the things I think that is important. And then in helping our families with being able to get services that they may possibly need. So that’s what I think was connected. I want the community feel with the school. And then I think that caring, I want to build that foundation of trust, and I think that I want that culture to feel that it provides an understanding for every member.

34:50
Brenda
So I would want the facility to always be welcoming. So I want it to look welcoming. So I wanted to have all those features that people would feel comfortable with being there. And I think with clarity. I’m talking about how we communicate and how we are clear with what our message is and what we’re trying to do, and that everybody is valuable to what we’re doing, and we’re placing value on everything that we’re saying. We have so much power in the words that we use, and I think that we forget that as educators. Like you were saying, I think early in our conversation, why do we have so many kids feeling like they don’t have somebody they trust? We’ve got to change that. I agree with you wholeheartedly. If there’s one thing I want people to know is that you’ve got to do that.

35:45
Brenda
You’ve got to build that trust. You’ve got to be that trusted adult, and people need to have that. They just do.

35:53
Daniel
We covered a lot of ground today, Brenda, and everything we discussed. What’s the one thing you want a ruckus maker to remember?

35:59
Brenda
I want them to know that being a ruckus maker, you’re the change that we need. You need to make this ruckus and make people understand that we do need to make these changes, to lead the way, to member that together we can, that we’re a team and that it’s okay to do these things, to make these changes. People need to feel valued. And one of the things that’s in the book, I guess you asked me this earlier, we need to support our staff. When kids come to school with the trauma and stuff, support your staff as well. That’s important.

36:39
Daniel
Thanks for listening to the Better leaders better Schools podcast, Ruckus Maker. How would you like to lead with confidence, swap exhaustion for energy, turn your critics into cheerleaders and so much more? The Ruckus Maker Mastermind is a world class leadership program designed for growth minded school leaders just like you. Go to slash mastermind, learn more about our program and fill out the application. We’ll be in touch within 48 hours. To talk how we can help you be even more effective. And by the way, we have cohorts that are diverse and mixed up. We also have cohorts just for women in leadership and a BIPOC only cohort as well. When you’re ready to level up, go to betterleadersbetterschools.com mastermind and fill out the application. Thanks again for listening to the show. Bye for now and go make a ruckus.