“Having an identity as a learner is fundamental to getting to learn anything else. As a school leader, as an educator, cultivating a sense of belonging is kind of a job one. Safety first, but the next job is belonging. They go hand in hand. They’re next to each other on Maslow’s hierarchy of needs, in fact.”
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Read the Transcript here.
Title: Improve Your Culture With For Belonging
Daniel: I want to start today’s podcast with an activity. Those activities are actually powerful to do if you’re commuting on your way to work and that kind of thing. I’ll invite you to replay this introduction when you get somewhere safe where you can sit down with a notebook and actually take part in the activity. Either way, if you’re starting an activity or thinking about it, I want you to consider where you live. For me, that’s Syracuse, New York. I want you to consider that area geographically. Picture a map or maybe go to Google Maps or Apple Maps or whatever, mapping maps and see that space. Are you there? I want you to identify maybe up to five places where you feel you truly belong in that space. Which places would you pick? Where do you feel connected? Where do you feel seen and heard? Where do you feel alive or invited? Where do you feel like you’re in a good place and validated or comfortable or honest, or like our members experience in the mastermind, they feel like they belong. They feel connected. You have those spaces. What makes them special? How do you know that you belong there? What are the cues? And now for the big question. Did you pick your school? Would your staff? Would your students? Would your parents pick your school? It’s the content of today’s topic. It’s an awesome conversation that I had with Dr. Susie Wise. She wrote a book that I recommend you check out called Design for Belonging. My latest book, Mastermind Unlocking Talent Within Every School Leader, we unpack this framework called the ABCs of Powerful Professional Development. The A is for authenticity, the B is for belonging, the C is for challenge. And when you integrate those three aspects into a professional development experience that leads to life and leadership transformation, I share all that to say that belonging is near and dear to my heart. I love this episode. You’re going to love it. And I was thrilled to share the mic with Dr. Wise. And guess what, Chief Ruckus Makers Danny Bauer’s birthday. Today is my birthday, so it’s super fun to release this episode and celebrate my birthday with you. You are a gift to me in the fact that you’ve been listening to this podcast for so long, and I want to say thanks and express some gratitude on my special day as well. Like I said, Hey, it’s Danny and welcome to the Better Leaders Better Schools podcast. The show for Ruckus Makers. That’s you because you are an out of the box leader making change happen in education. We’ll be right back after a few short messages from our show’s sponsors.
Daniel: Learn how to develop your skills to identify challenges, incorporate and support innovation and plan and drive school improvement in leading schools. Strategy and Innovation. A Certificate in School Management and Leadership Course from Harvard Leading Schools Strategy and Innovation runs from July 20th to August 17th, 2020 to apply by July 8th. Enroll by July 14th. Get started at betterleadersbetterschools.com/Harvard. Are you automatically tracking online student participation data during COVID? Innovative school leaders across the country have started tracking online student participation using Teach FX because it’s one of the most powerful ways to improve student outcomes during COVID, especially for English learners and students of color. Learn more about Teach FX and get a special offer at TeachFx.com/BLBS .
Daniel: All students have an opportunity to succeed with Organized Binder, who equips educators with a resource to provide stable and consistent learning, whether that’s in a distance, hybrid or traditional educational setting. Learn more at organizedbinder.COM. Hello Ruckus Maker. I am excited to share this episode with Dr. Susie Wise one. She’s brilliant. She wrote a beautiful book called Design for Belonging that I highly recommend you check out. It’s all about belonging, which is a part of my framework, the ABCs of powerful professional development. So being for belonging is special to my heart. Plus, this is my birthday episode. This is released on July 6th, and I’m really honored to share it with Dr. Wise. Dr. Susie Wise is a design leader with experience in the education, tech and the social sectors. She coaches leaders in equity design and innovation practices. She teaches at the D School at Stanford and coaches with the Mira Fellowship. Previously, she founded and directed the K 12 Lab at the D School and co-created Laboratory Design. Dr. Weiss, welcome to the show.
Dr Wise: Thank you so much for having me, Danny. I’m glad to be here.
Daniel: Absolutely. Susie, you wrote a beautiful book. It’s all about belonging. You tell the story of your mom being remarried in the beginning of the book. You use that to illustrate a moment when you actually felt like you didn’t belong. Can you tell us that story?
Dr Wise: Absolutely. I find that one of the key things about designing for belonging is feeling it. Sometimes when you’re asked to feel a time of belonging, the first thing that comes to your mind is the time when you didn’t so much feel it. As you said, that was the time of one thing that comes to my mind is the time of my mother’s second marriage. Before I tell the story, I’ll say there’s a happy ending. I love my stepfather, to get that out of the way. But at the time I was an awkward seventh grader who was really uncomfortable with the departure of her father. I was pretty miserable with the idea that my mom was getting remarried and the wedding was kind of the pinnacle of that for me. It’s interesting because part of what I think about in designing for belonging is how can you redesign a bad situation? We can’t go back to that moment. When I look at that moment in my memory, I feel like I didn’t know why I was there. I didn’t know where we were. We were in a church I was not familiar with. I didn’t know a lot of the people. I just had this deep sense of disease and I didn’t belong there. When I look back, I think, wow, there are in fact so many things that one could have done. Could there have been a new role created to help the kids figure out what was going on? Could the space have somehow invited us in? Could there have been a way for me to contribute to the day that felt authentic or participate in some way that felt authentic to me? So it just in a way, it encapsulates kind of all the things that a moment of belonging doesn’t have but could have.
Daniel: Obviously, it’s a personal story and experience about belonging, at least when I hear you. From the lens of what the family or the church and that kind of stuff could do. I’m thinking with my leadership hat on and we’ll talk about how leaders can do belonging in their schools. But the Ruckus Maker listening I’m sure they have a Susie that’s going through an experience like this. Do you think the school could have done anything? It’s okay if the answer is like no, because we’re going to get to that, like what schools can do. When you reflect, do you think?
Dr Wise: I think it’s interesting. And that would have needed to be some kind of interaction where they even knew. In my memory, I don’t write new things. But sure, like you could imagine a teacher or a leader letting families know that if you’re having big events, big changing points in your family’s lives, let us know. We’re here to support. That feels like that could have been. I like that suggestion and or other institutions. I think I was part of a Girl Scout troop at the time. Might there have been any kind of interconnection? It’s really interesting to think about it like that. The thing about having a memory of not belonging to work with and I invite everyone to to think about that it can be really powerful. Because you can and this is not meant to retraumatize anyone. Of course you’re doing this in ways that are safe for you and memories that you want to go back to and work with. So we’re clear, but going back to think about a time when you didn’t belong can reveal some of the things that were missing and similarly going to a time or place where you now or in the past have felt a strong sense of belonging. You can kind of unearth what was created that helped you feel that?
Daniel: I think that’s a great activity, right, that Ruckus Makers can run with their staff. You don’t have to sell me on the idea of belonging and that it matters. I can assume that many of them have alignment with the energy that I put out there and the values and that kind of thing. But there might be somebody listening, why should I really care about creating belonging in school? And so what might you say to that leader?
Dr Wise: I think to that leader, I’ll say it’s not nice to have. It’s actually fundamental. It’s fundamental to learning. One of the things I do in the book is I feature these host heroes, and one of them is Camille Farrington, and she does research in Chicago area schools. And that sense of belonging is fundamental to being able to have an identity as a learner. Having an identity as a learner is fundamental to getting to learn anything else. As a school leader, as an educator, cultivating a sense of belonging is kind of a job one. Safety first, but the next job is belonging. They go hand in hand. They’re next to each other on Maslow’s hierarchy of needs, in fact.
Daniel: You also tell the story of Leda Hayes and the power of answering in you. I’ll let you explain this threshold exercise. I want to know about the music and the dancing that seemed fun. Can you tell us more?
Dr Wise: Absolutely. Absolutely. To back up for a quick second, the idea here is that there are lots of moments to design for. I’m going to design belonging wall to wall 24/7. Yes, that’s the goal. How you design. For design, you have to design concretely around something. I found it helpful to open up and think about a range of different kinds of moments. The invitation is one and entering is the next kind of moment. I will talk about Elita Hayes. She’s somebody that I’ve worked with a bunch of times at the school. She’s a dance teacher and lecturer at the school and at Stanford, and she does this exercise in some of our workshops with educators and with executives, where she creates a kind of false entry. We’re in a big room, but she creates a false entry that you have to come through so literally, just like pulling up some whiteboard so anyone could do this, just to say it out loud. “Ruckus Makers pull up some boards so that you kind of block the entrance. You have some music and you step out in front of that. And you say “when you enter this new entry you’ll notice that there’s music and there’s no pressure here. You just want to move to the music. I want everybody as you walk through the door and just that signaling of a new doorway, a new threshold, lets you take in her instructions, I think in an interesting way.” And then the music does the rest. So then once you enter, the music is playing and people just start to move. And she takes it from there to get folks who do all kinds of different dances. But it starts by just walking. We walk as if we’re in New York and we walk as if we’re in Chicago, and we walk as if we’re in a sleepy small town in the middle of America. Or we walk where we grew up walking and wherever we lived and noticing that walking is a version of a dance. We all do that all the time. You don’t have to be afraid of the word dance when you start with walking. It’s really powerful. I think that the reason I wanted to include her is just the consciousness. The intentionality of that design for entering a space I think is really powerful, very powerful.
Daniel: One of the exercises, there’s many exercises throughout the book. I’d like for you to unpack with the Ruckus Maker listing is this idea of stop and listen at the entry. That’s a powerful moment when we’re talking about moments for any stakeholder, Like parent, student, staff member, businessperson and whoever. But they’re coming in. What do they experience? So can you talk to us a bit about the exercise there?
Dr Wise: Absolutely. So stop and linger at the. Entry helps us just to think about these moments of coming or going, but imagine entering. That’s a powerful moment where you often question, do I belong here at that threshold, at that doorway? Think about entering a new country or a new town or a new building or a new company that you ask the question, Do I belong? So it’s a critical moment to receive cues about who belongs and who doesn’t. And so this exercise just says, go to some place, maybe don’t start first with your school, start with somewhere else. Could be just somewhere you’re going in your day. So it’s the big box store that you need to go to or the grocery store and and think about it as you’re entering. And you can think about it on three levels and any others that occurred to you. But one is what’s happening in the physical space. The other is what’s happening in the visual space.That are you seeing? What are the structures of the physical space? What are you seeing on the visual plane? And then what’s happening in terms of any interactions as part of the entry? Is there a greeter? Is there not a greeter? Is that right? As you think, are there visuals? What are the cue? And then you’re just asking yourself the question, what are all the things that were part of that entry and how did they make me feel? Were they kind of probe belonging, really inviting me in or were they a little bit alienating where they cueing me that maybe this wasn’t my space and you could think about this in spaces that that maybe you don’t go to regularly to or spaces that are explicitly designed, let’s say, for little people, a certain kind of playground or play space. When you go there, what are the signals and are they and who are they speaking to? Are they speaking to the tall people, the adults? Are they speaking to the little people, the kiddos? And so it’s just this paying attention to that critical juncture of the entryway I think is powerful. You’re also just tuning yourself to thinking across those three dimensions, physical, visual and interaction. you could also look at those three things and meaning that you go to and think about how they’re playing, right? So paying attention and feeling into how you’re receiving the signals is part of designing for belonging.
Daniel: One of my coaches and mentors, Seth Godin, talks about who’s it for, what’s it for? And I think that curiosity about all these spaces could be applied in so many different ways in the school leader’s life. The shadow side of belonging. I don’t know if you’d agree, but you talk about others. As when you feel like you don’t belong, you’re being othered. And sometimes when you step into a space, you say, Oh, this is not for me. You experience that, and it feels a certain type of way. There’s something you highlight in the book. David Yeager I hope I’m pronouncing his name, at the University of Texas and that school, like many schools, right, are going to have first generation college students in students that don’t have a history in the family experience of what it takes to be successful. And even though we’re talking about colleges, this applies to elementary, middle of high school. What does it take to be successful here? And David figured out an intervention that helped those kids succeed because they’re asking that question, do I belong? And if their answer is no, then often, they quit. They decide to find a place they do belong. So can you talk about the intervention that he saw as useful?
Dr Wise: He’s experimented with a number of different ones, so I’ll kind of give the high level but invite people to. He’s a published researcher so you can find his work. And you did say it, right? It’s David Yeager. He’s a psychologist at the University of Texas and he for a long time was a student of Carol Dweck. So I was thinking about a growth mindset. And in the context of that, really thinking about belonging. And as you said, first gen college students, one of the things that you find is that students that have a background and more people in their life that have experienced college don’t have as many psychological threats to their belonging when they get to college. And so it’s very natural. Most students hit a bump in the road when you get to college. And the question is, do you interpret that as, oh, that was a hard test and I should study more, or I could go to office hours, or maybe I need a study group or any number of things to like, wow, I didn’t do as well on that test as I wanted to. The issue is, if you interpret that not doing well on the test as a threat like, Oh, I don’t belong here, that sends you down a different path. And you, you start to seek the exit instead of. Seeking the resources that would help you. And so what he did in this intervention and it was quite notable because it was a short intervention. It was about, if I remember correctly, like, you know, 20 to 45 minutes of content that students received over the summer before they started school. So there was a little bit of texting with somebody, but there were stories that they received in video form from older students who had backgrounds like theirs. That’s kind of critical. So it’s like someone like me who is letting me know that when it gets hard, right, I can look for all these resources. And so just hearing that from somebody like themselves who’s been down the road then gave them enough of a boost that it persisted and they saw really important gains in terms of not leaving school for the students that had that. So it was a powerful indicator of how we can support belonging. It does not mean redesigning the entire university, although I’m not opposed to that. But for Ruckus Makers , redesign is great. But yes, the small things that you can do to get started, to be supportive, like we’re very we take up very subtle cues that can either send us in the direction of feeling like, oh, this is not for me. Similarly, a subtle cue can really bully you in the face of some of the other cues like, Oh, I got a bad score. But remembering that’s part of the college journey, it’s not you and there’s so many resources that you can tap into that are really, really powerful. I love sharing that work and there are a range of other learning scientists that do work related to that, that show that it is really powerful to make new kinds of interventions to support belonging. For me that means we got to get in there with design. Design helps us to think intentionally and to be a little bit experimental about what are some different things that we can do and see what kinds of students can be supported to belong more in what contexts.
Daniel: Brilliance. Susie, I’m really enjoying our conversation. We’re going to pause here for some messages from our sponsors. When we come back, we’re going to travel to Oakland and talk about designing a back to school ritual, which is very timely since this is coming out in the middle of summer.Learn how to successfully drive school change and help your diverse stakeholders establish priorities and improve practice in leading schools. Strategy and Innovation. A Certificate in School Management and Leadership Course from Harvard. Topics include vision and goal setting, root cause analysis, organizational alignment, innovation and more leading schools. Strategy and innovation runs from July 20th to August 17th, 2020 to apply by July 8th, enroll by July 14th, and get started at betterleadersbetterschools.com/Harvard. During COVID every teacher is a new teacher. That’s why innovative school leaders are turning to Teach FX whose virtual PD is equipping thousands of teachers with the skills they need to create engaging, equitable and rigorous virtual or blended classes. To learn more about Teach FX and get a special offer, visit teachfx.com/BLBS.Today’s show is brought to you by organized binder. Organized binder develops the skills and habits all students need for success during these uncertain times of distance learning and hybrid education settings, organized binder equips educators with a resource to provide stable and consistent learning routines so that all students have an opportunity to succeed, whether at home or in the classroom. Learn more at OrganizedBinder.com. We’re back with Dr. Susie Wise. I love her book Design for Belonging. Highly recommend that speakers pick up a copy. We are now in Oakland at Urban Montessori and you are helping them design a back to school ritual. Can you explain what you helped dream up and create with them?
Dr Wise: I realized that there are two stories that I tell them there. Are you thinking about educators or for parents?
Daniel: I didn’t have that in my notes, so I must have forgotten. Let’s talk for parents because we’re talking about Ruckus Making and redesign and like an open house back to school night that is like low hanging fruit for many schools that have been doing it the same way for decades and it’s boring. It’s not connected. People might not even be coming. So we could really give some value that way.
Dr Wise: One of the things that we did at Urban Montessori was to think about how we could invite parents into not just adhere to kind of as a referring to the ways things had always been done. We’re really trying to make an invitation. This is a new school and it was a very diverse school with a really diverse parent and caregiver population crossing a number of different communities. We wanted to be supportive of folks getting to show up and know that they could make a contribution because contribution is a big part of belonging, it’s one of the moments that you have to call out. As a leader, thinking about your staff, but also for your parent community, how can parents make a contribution? We often end up with a really limited palette of options, like you can give money or you can go to this event. And that illuminates so many folks. What we found was that we wanted to show up and introduce a design exercise so nobody knew this particular design exercise. So right there it was kind of leveling. We use the moment to be very casual. There was plenty of food and coffee. It was a Saturday morning and we entered into pairwise conversations. Parents talking to another parent that they purposely didn’t know, finding out a little bit about their life and about how they most liked to be introduced to others and what kind of contribution they felt like they could make once they were introduced. They did these interviews with each other. What was special in this context is that your partner designed for you a way to share what you might want to contribute to the school with the wider community, and that the experience of that was really powerful because the other parent then received this idea that was kind of ready to go. There was a really, really wide range. Some people designed a little letter that they could hand out. Some people designed something that was more like a space. Other people designed an event that they could do where different parents could come and share their skills. It was just a really beautiful moment for you. It felt like it really interrupted some of the traditional power dynamics in a school where the person with the most elite white collar job wasn’t in charge of this event. In fact The parent who could contribute by doing some gardening with students and offering that to the school was really excited to do that. It was really seen as a valuable contribution. There was this collective notion of, “wow, this is going to be a school where everyone’s going to contribute really differently, but we’re all going to contribute something.” It was super powerful. When we take that to like a back to school night, I feel like there are a lot of different things that a leader or somebody planning a back to school night could do. One thing that I think of is what’s the,teach one to learn one kind of a wall. Like, I want to learn. I can teach. What if there’s just a big wall where as you come in, you can say those things. Somebody might say, I want to learn more conversational English, and I can teach gardening or I want to learn this kind of cooking. I can teach this kind of cooking and you could kind of tee that up to really help the community see each other in a new way. And that is the kind of belonging seeing each other and your skills, your assets, your attributes, the things that you can offer that contributes to belonging in a huge way.
Daniel: Sign me up for gardening. I’m working on that skill set right now. I want to actually invite us to the inner world of Danny. I’m glad that I didn’t have that in my notes. I’m glad I trusted my gut and said, “Oh, the parents weren’t right because as you told the story, I remembered. The contribution piece is what I resonated with. How do you invite that more with your parents? Because they have so many strengths. I love how you said love of the playing field. Sort of the meta thing here that I’m sharing with the Ruckus Maker listening. Trust your gut, you’re going to be put in positions all the time as a leader where you’re like, Huh? I don’t think I actually know, but you do know. So trust yourself.
Dr Wise: The thing that I would add to that, I love that trust your gut and do the experiment right you know it’s a little bit the just do it don’t do it gigantic you know with the blimp announcing it to the whole world. Trust your gut and try it at the next meeting. Try the conversation that you want to have or try the question prompt with the next parent that walks in the door and see what kind of a conversation that you can have. I think you could have and you could use my book for this, but you can make your own list. You could have a whole list of things that you’re wanting to try out. And then the first ten parents, they all get a different little, little taste of what you’re trying. I think that helps you. That helps you see yourself as the person who trusts their gut in order to try things. And it shifts the way people perceive you as a leader, as an educator.
Daniel: Brilliant. Let’s talk about one more exercise, the assumption storm, because a lot of times we’re telling ourselves stories, we’re making a lot of assumptions about all sorts of people and events, and normally they’re not correct. So this one really flipped my thinking, which I think is the power of the exercise. Can you explain that a little bit?
Dr Wise: Absolutely. Assumption storm is a classic design exercise. It can be used really fruitfully if you’re wanting to generate ideas, but it’s also a kind of interesting analytic tool. So you can move it in either direction. So to do an assumption storm, you’re thinking about something specific. As an example, you’re wanting to think about redesigning your back to school night. So you list all your assumptions about that. It’s at night, it’s in September, it happens, it’s 90 minutes. You meet every teacher. It’s right. There’s so many assumptions that we have baked into that. It’s only for parents all the different things you list out all those assumptions and then you consciously try it. With that list, you stick with them as separate items and you flip each of those. So what if it was in the morning? What if it were led by students? What if it were a time when you brought your grandparents? Again, and so any of those and you’re not saying that you have to do all of these flips, but it starts to open you up and it both gives you that consciousness of like, “wow, I have a lot of assumptions about this thing and it gives you the space to question which of them are really serving you. And then if you’re using it for brainstorming, it also puts you in the position to be like, Wow, what if it were a coffee? And by the way, what if it happened once a month? And what if it happened in a garden? And what if it happened in different parts of the city? What if we did it at the library, or what if we did it at the Science Center because we have this new partnership with this science center that we want to do on and on and on. Or what if it’s a parent? What if we get the parents to contribute and they design it on and on and on? So I think it really opens up and I’ll say that one thing I was talking to some educators in the Chicago area yesterday, definitely Ruckus Makers and they had been reading design for belonging and they wanted to have a little chat. So we got together to chat and they were asking about the assumption storm and one of the people said, you know, I just want to do an assumption storm with my leadership team this summer and my teammates. But I’m afraid it’s just going to go negative right away. And so one of the things I say, and I think this is true for lots of exercises, don’t start using the exercise on your hardest challenge. Start on something actually totally outside of it. Right. So what if it was about redesigning summer vacation or redesigning your family meal or and you just list the assumptions on something that’s a little bit outside of the things. That you’re working on gets people the chance to see how the exercise works and the spirit of it and how generative it can be. And then you can move to the thing that’s harder. That is really the nut that you’re trying to crack, but you’ve actually built a little joy. You’ve built a little flexibility with the tool, and you might be able to bring it to a different place.
Daniel: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Cool. I want to recommend everybody go to designforbelonging.com/toolkit where you have a resource for Ruckus Makers . Is there anything you’d like to add in terms of what they might find and sign the tool inside the tool kit? I’ve downloaded it and I’m excited about it, but anything you’d like to say?
Dr Wise: No, I’ll just say that it’s that version is a prototype and it includes some things called Jumpstart. I’m super curious what any of those resonate with folks. So feel free to reach out or share other kinds of jumpstarts. My orientation is towards demystifying how to get started again. Belonging is not a monolith. It really matters as we know. And yet, like all things in our school cultures, it’s built day by day, minute by minute, not by some pronunciation and not by some rollout. I’m very anti rollout the roll out in air quotes there and and so the jump starts are also just like a bunch of things that you could potentially try.
Daniel: Got it. Speaking of rolling out, I shared with the mastermind last night that I actually have met Ludacris in Atlanta who sings Roll Out. And that was a super cool moment for me. All right. Back to the show, Susie. Now you can put a message on all school marquees around the world for just a single day. What would your message read?
Dr Wise: I think it would read. You belong here, Really. And just to just to give it a little focus on I think it’s a message that’s worth sharing. And I think the adding the “really” lets you take a moment to think about it. Let it sink in.
Daniel: How are you building your dream school? You’re not limited by any resources, your only limitation. Suzy’s your imagination. How would you build your dream school? What would be the three guiding principles?
Dr Wise: Okay, I’ve got three principles. They are pourest, intergenerational and prioritize play. And this is true k through university, through lifelong learning. For me Porus is about inside out. I my one of my I feel super constrained and unhappy about the kind of tight borders that are around schools. I want to open those up to be indoor or outdoor, quite literally, but also in terms of the dimensions of where where learning can happen in your town, in your city, what are the kind of other organizations and people that you’re involved with? So porous is one of my principles related to that is intergenerational. I think our culture in America today really suffers by the separation between generations and some of the subcultures in our broader American culture do much better than I think white dominant culture does around intergenerational focus. But I want to lift that up as something really powerful. And I think there are a lot of folks that we can learn from of about what intergenerational learning can really look like and then prioritize healthy play. I think we’re suffering from a work, work, work orientation and work is actually not the opposite of play. Boredom and stress are the opposite of play. Play is the healthy place where your mind is alive and receptive to both relationships and learning. So I want to deeply ground that and I’ll just shout out to the organization. Playworks, who’s influenced a lot of my thinking about play. Jill, Violet and Elizabeth Cushing. But really building a school around the role of healthy play, I think would be a huge contribution.
Daniel: Absolutely. Suzy, thank you so much for being a part of the Better Leaders Better Schools podcast. We covered a lot of ground, so for everything we discuss, what’s the one thing you want a Ruckus Maker to remember.
Dr Wise: That you can and should design for belonging? It happens in small ways and tuning to your own stories andmfeelings of belonging can be the guiding light.
Daniel: Thanks for listening to the Better Leaders Better Schools podcast Ruckus Maker . If you have a question or would like to connect my email Daniel at better leaders better schools dot com or hit me up on Twitter @Alienearbud if the better leader is Better Schools podcast is helping you grow as a school leader, then please help us serve more Ruckus Makers like you. You can subscribe, leave an honest rating and review or share on social media with your biggest takeaway from the episode. Extra credit for tagging me on Twitter at @AlienEarbud and using the hashtag #blbs. Level up your leadership. Betterleadersbetterschools.com and talk to you next time. Until then, class dismissed.
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