Why Principals Won’t Delegate (And What It’s Costing Them) with Naphtali Hoff

00:00
Speaker 1
Foreign warning sign would be that you never feel like you could leave the office. Just as I said, that's a personal warning sign.

00:09
Speaker 2
Right?

00:09
Speaker 1
In other words, if I feel that if I leave the building there's going to be chaos unfolding, that means I have not done a very good job in delegating. Now again, there are people who are just very controlling and they worry that since everything ultimately comes back to them that they need to have their stamp is going to be on everything. They may as well do it right.

00:34
Speaker 2
For over 30 years, ODP Business Solutions has helped schools transform from whiteboards to smart boards. Why? Because when you get the right tools, everyone wins. Visit ODPbusiness.com education to revolutionize your school's learning spaces. That's ODP business.com education staffing stability isn't just about filling positions. It's about what makes educators stay frontline. Education's 2026 K12 lens report highlights what districts are doing differently to strengthen retention and long term support. You can download the full [email protected] leaders that's frontlineducation.com leaders over 1 million teachers rely on IXL because it's empowering. It helps them make better decisions with reliable data, and it adapts instruction based on student performance. You can get started [email protected] leaders. That's ixl.com leaders this episode is brought to you by Kids First Education.

02:01
Speaker 2
Founded by career educators, Kids first partners with Pre K through 12 schools and districts to deliver instructional coaching, leadership development, and curriculum support that puts students first. Real educators, real results. Learn more@kids first dot, llc. That's kids first llc. All right. And Naftali, welcome back to the show.

02:32
Speaker 1
Thank you, Dan. It's been an absolute. It's been way too long, let's put it that way. And I enjoyed our last conversation. I know I've had you on my podcast once upon a time. You were one of my first guests.

02:44
Speaker 2
Really?

02:44
Speaker 1
So, yeah, back in the day. Back in the day. So thank you. Thank you for bringing me back.

02:50
Speaker 2
Absolutely. I wanted to start we're going to get into delegation in your book. But I'm curious if you have any stories of like, delegation gone wrong or like disaster delegation stories?

03:02
Speaker 1
Well, I'm trying to think if I have a disaster delegation stories. I know. I'll put it this way. My biggest disaster delegation story was perhaps what prompted me to become somewhat of a delegation expert. And that was the story of my arrival as a headmaster in Atlanta in 2010. So for historical context, the recession really Hit the world in 2008, 2009. But the community, for a variety of reasons, was still reeling in the aftermath of the recession In July of 2010, when I first arrived. So we had a school with lots of aspirations. We were blue ribbon school of Excellence before I got there. But that between me and you, doesn't necessarily mean all that much. And then I got there with a host of expectations. You know, the board, parents, teachers.

03:56
Speaker 1
My predecessor was a really great and special person, but he had been there for a really long time. He was at the cusp of retirement, his wife was quite ill. And so there were all sorts of issues relating to the transition for me to the position. And then on top of it, I was trying to demonstrate that I deserved the position, deserved the job. And so I wanted to demonstrate my capacity quickly. So what I started to do was put things into place, things that I had talked about, making things happen. And in the process I was wearing everybody down. Myself, my bare bones administrative team. We didn't have a lot of people on staff that many of the competition. This was an independent school, so really we're competing for members of this select community.

04:41
Speaker 1
And were trying to do so with one hand tied behind our back. So I was doing whatever I could, but I was finding that I was just running out of gas. And I had somebody on the T on the. In the office. She was the office manager. She managed a lot of things and did a really well with a bright smile and a can do attitude. But I think she was misplaced. I felt like she could do more. We didn't have an admissions director, we didn't have a marketing person. She had a background in both of those areas. And so I transitioned her out of some of the what we might call secretarial and administrative relative low value office type functions that she was involved with into more of this administrative post.

05:27
Speaker 1
It didn't happen right away, but once it happened, it was transformative for me because it gave me somebody we could really lean on for things that we needed. And it was transformative for her because she felt kind of bottled up for a long time, even though she was so sweet, she would never say it, so whatever you ask, but she really wanted more and it didn't cost us that much financially. It was just a token gesture, but it was really more the opportunity. And that created a whole new pathway for her success and really opened my eyes for what's possible when you delegate well. And there are a lot of elements to it, as you know, but that was Certainly a piece from a big picture standpoint of making that transition into a better place.

06:10
Speaker 2
Right. What, what do you think are the biggest myths that school leaders believe when it comes to delegation?

06:17
Speaker 1
I'll call excuses, even though I think people often refer, present them as real challenges. You called them myths, but it's kind of like all the same in a way.

06:27
Speaker 2
Sure.

06:28
Speaker 1
It's things like I don't have the people, I don't have the time. I'll never find someone who could do it like I can do it. So they're not myths per se. Meaning to say, it could very well be that the person doesn't have anyone at the ready to hand things to. Right. We're all busy people and we assume all of our people are busy people. So one of my excuses is I can't give them any more, they already have a full plate or I don't have the right person. Nobody's ever been asked to do this before or it's going to take so much time for me to do this, to train them in, I may as well just do it myself, et cetera.

07:03
Speaker 1
And so oftentimes when I do training on delegation and I, you know, we didn't actually mention the book yet, but the books that I just wrote, Becoming the Delegating School Boss is all about identifying at the beginning why it is that school leaders are so hesitant to delegate and why they have to do it anyway if they're going to be successful and really manage themselves and have long term success without the burnout.

07:25
Speaker 2
Yeah, well, to me, you know, it's like when I talk about delegation. There's an old Marvel comic where X Force and Jamie Madrox was one of the lead characters. He's, his name is Multiplica, you know, multiple man, so and right. Whenever he wanted he could just create more of himself to do other things. Yeah. And for whatever reason, you know, I, I, I find that people, leaders just, they want to say, well, I could do it best as well, you know, and that kind of thing. And it's just like, you know, to me that it's getting into ego, you're getting in the way. But if somebody else can, you know, get it done at 80% of your capacity or whatever, and you can go out and do the things that only you can do, you know, you need to free yourself.

08:08
Speaker 1
So an important point.

08:10
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah, go ahead.

08:12
Speaker 1
I was going to say that we all know that excellence is the goal or perfection often is the goal, but excellence really should be the Goal, because perfection is the enemy of progress. So I talk about this on a productivity level. We also talk about this just in terms of what we're willing tolerate or accept. If we're going for excellent, then for the most part, people are going to be happy. If we're shooting for perfection, people may still be happy, but we're not going to be happy. And we're going to also take so much time away from moving on to the next thing, because you can always tweak it, always make it a little better, always, you know, find another way to do it. But that's not the goal.

08:50
Speaker 1
The goal is to get it done, move on to the next thing so that you can be successful and thrive.

08:55
Speaker 2
Yeah. And the other thing I wanted to add is, like, I think people really enjoy feeling like they're needed. Right. And that. That, okay, if. If. Yeah, if this needs to be done, if I'm the one to do it, right. I'm the hero or whatever. And again, ego, I think, is getting in the way of that. So, you know, what's going on there with delegation, it's just a pain. You're gonna. I like to say, too, that you're the. The chief bottleneck or the chief opportunity Right. Within your organization. And leaders that get. That will get becoming the delegating school of Oz because they want to, you know, maximize the value that they create. Create for their campus with delegation. I think there's like a huge element of trust. Right. That is a part of that.

09:41
Speaker 2
And how do you encourage ruckus makers and school leaders to establish that trust so you can have that delegating relationship?

09:49
Speaker 1
Yeah. So first of all, they have to be willing to trust. That's a piece of it. Like you talked about being willing to let go. And I often say I talked about this in my first book, already Becoming the New Boss, that leaders need to shift their mindset away from me and towards we. And so assuming that ruckus makers were once classroom teachers, just as an example, at that point, they were responsible probably for pretty much everything. Their lesson plans, their curriculum, their, you know, photocopying, whatever it was. They didn't have secretaries to lean on. They certainly had a lot of responsibility. When you move up the ladder, the good news is you typically get more support, but you have to be willing to use that support.

10:31
Speaker 1
You have to realize, what is it that I'm uniquely gifted at and capable of and what can I empower other people to do? Because truthfully, Danny, if not for the fact that somebody took a Flyer on you as in the school leader, whoever's listening, you never would have had an opportunity, somebody took a chance with you that you could be that person to step in and make a difference. And I think it's important for leaders to think about creating pipelines of leadership, being willing to accept less than perfect today with the understanding that over time people will get better. And as far as building trust, I love the framework that Ken Blanchard lays out, the ABCD trust model. Able, believable, connected, dependable.

11:17
Speaker 1
And so pieces of it are more the interpersonal elements, the connected, you know, the believable piece, but the able and dependable, those are things that I think you can build in people over time. Meaning to say, whether it's coursework, mentorship, coaching, they're not the same, but they're similar. But giving people the tools that they need, that maybe they're not ready today, but with the right kind of support, they will get there. And if you're willing to trust the process and feeling like you have a good person in place, for the most part, you will enjoy success and then you'll be able, like we talked about before, to get to the things you really need to be focusing on.

11:54
Speaker 2
Yeah. Do you see any sort of like warning signs that a school leader, Principal Ruckus Maker is like the school's too dependent on them. Right. That they are that chief bottleneck?

12:04
Speaker 1
Yeah. Well, a warning sign would be that you never feel like you could leave the office. That's a personal warning sign. Right. I feel that if I leave the building, there's going to be chaos unfolding. That means I have not done a very good job in delegating. Now again, there are people who are just very controlling and they worry that since everything ultimately comes back to them, that they need to have their stamp is going to be on everything. They may as well do it. Right. On the other hand, we all know that we get sick, we have personal days, we have other things, we have business reasons to leave the building, conferences, etc. We need to be able to do that. Another one, Danny is working too hard.

12:47
Speaker 1
If we grind ourselves down, if we're in the office 7 to 7, 10, 12 hour work days and work never ends, we continue to work at night. What we're doing is we're setting unhealthy expectations and standards for ourself, which not only do we model for other people, but we also ultimately run the risk of feeling burnt out. And I know myself, I've had times in my professional career where I just wasn't prepared to keep going because the burnout was so real.

13:15
Speaker 2
Yeah, that's definitely a part of it. And, you know, I like to say that it's not called school care or district care. It's called self care. So to that burnout piece and the boundaries and everything we're discussing there, that's the individual's responsibility, you know, to take control of. So appreciate you sharing that. You know, a lot. A lot of leaders at times feel bad, like, oh, they already got a lot on their plates. Right. And so how do you encourage leaders to think through that and maybe get around that foreseen obstacle?

13:50
Speaker 1
So part of it is, I think, just task management and task awareness. So if you're familiar with the Eisenhower matrix, popularized by Stephen Covey, the urgent and important, by looking at every task through that lens and asking yourself, for me, as the school leader, what is each of the. What do each of these tasks represent? And if you're not sure, I recommend you walk around with an activity log. I think a piece of paper and a clipboard is just fine for a couple of weeks. And literally write down every single activity that you do. And on the back end of it, maybe twice a day, end of the morning, end of the afternoon, while you're still thinking about it and still somewhat fresh, give an assessment to each of those tasks and ask yourself, how important was this? How valuable was this?

14:40
Speaker 1
Is this the kind of thing I should be doing more of or perhaps less of? And you start to go through the process. Now, if you are not really good with time management, oftentimes you run into the issue of things that are not urgent, becoming urgent. And oftentimes what happens is urgency creates a conflated sense of importance, which means that because it's urgent, we somehow think that it's important, but we have to be willing to say, you know, not everything is the same. If I block my calendar, if I devote time every day to the things that matter the most. And if you're a school leader, one of those critical pieces, as you know, is getting into classrooms, being visible, supporting teachers, engaging instructional oversight and feedback. Very important.

15:23
Speaker 1
Whether you do that or you delegate it to some of your other people, it must be done. And that is one of the most important things, if not the most important thing that any school leader can do. So when you ask yourself, what are the things that I'm doing that are critical? What are the things that must be done during the school day? What are some things that can be done after the school day? What are Some things that I could be delegating. So with the Eisenhower matrix, it's do, defer, delegate, delete, do means I got to do it right now because it's urgent and important. The fire department is here. I can't, I got to deal with it. We have a fire drill. We got to stop everything. Right.

15:57
Speaker 1
Defer, which I don't like the term, but it does start with the letter D, so I know why they used it. Is the important but not urgent items where we really should be spending more of our time? Where are we going institutionally? What is our vision? Who do we want to be bringing in as staff members or as, you know, board members or as, you know, students? How do we want to improve academics? All the planning, visioning, big picture thinking. That's where quadrant two is really special and that's where we want to spend time. Quadrant 3 is what you want to delegate. Find a crackerjack secretary or team of secretaries.

16:33
Speaker 1
All those things you can be giving those individuals to schedule your meetings, respond to many of your messages and calls, deal with a lot of the technical elements that don't really need your attention, and then delete are the things you shouldn't be dealing with at all. We all have some of those.

16:49
Speaker 2
Absolutely do. And probably, yeah, way more than we realize. Right. I have a little pop up that comes up every 90 days to remind me what are three things that are like basically sucking my energy, you know, and I could just get rid of and what would be three energy producing things that I might be able to add, you know, to what I'm about. And so that's a helpful reminder because it's like ruthlessly always trying to eliminate stuff that's just like the value's not there, but for some reason we hold on to it, you know, the way we've been doing things. ODP Business Solutions, formerly Office Depot Business Solutions Division, has been a trusted partner for schools for 30 years. And ODP business solutions, we're by your side to meet your evolving education needs. Here's the thing about creating remarkable learning spaces.

17:44
Speaker 2
You need a partner who gets it. Someone who understands that transforming education isn't just about swapping whiteboards for smart boards. It's about reimagining what's possible. That's why innovative school leaders trust ODP Business Solutions. We don't just deliver supplies. We help you design dynamic learning environments that make students actually excited to show up. From tech integrations that bring lessons to life to flexible furniture that transforms any space into a collaboration zone to sustainable solutions that teach by example. We've got everything you need to do school different. And the best part? You can get it all from a single supplier that helps you simplify ordering and streamline budgeting while staying compliant with easy access to cooperative contracts. However you want to advance, ODP Business Solutions has 30 years of experience helping districts like yours get ahead. Visit ODPbusiness.comeducation to learn more.

18:47
Speaker 2
That's ODPbusiness.com education principals and school leaders know the hardest part isn't the hiring. It's keeping great people from burning out. Frontline Education's 2026 K12 lens survey report found that while recruiting and hiring has eased, gaps still remain. Districts that provide structured and sustained professional development are more likely to report better hiring outcomes. In fact, nearly half of districts that use software to automate professional growth report hiring has become easier compared to only 30% of districts who don't. If you're trying to build a campus where people feel supported, connected and proud to stay, Download the full K12 lens report and see what's working for districts right now. Go to frontlineducation.com leaders that's frontlineducation.com leaders to get the full report. Something that drove me nuts as a ruckus maker was hearing teachers say things like I taught it, they should have learned it.

20:02
Speaker 2
But really, some teachers just don't know how to teach, or reteach for that matter, so that all kids get it. That's where IXL comes in. IXL's diagnostic automatically identifies knowledge gaps for teachers and provides them with a personalized growth plan for each individual student. Teachers can step into the classroom every day knowing what their students know and what they don't know. IXL's adaptive platform makes differentiating instruction easy. As students learn, IXL adjusts to the right level of difficulty for each student. Close knowledge gaps and accelerate learning with IXL. Get started today at ixl.com leadership that's ixl.com leaders better leaders build better schools and the best leaders don't do it alone. This episode is supported by Kids First Education. Founded by career educators, Kids first partners with Pre K through 12 districts and schools to strengthen teaching and leadership from the inside out.

21:15
Speaker 2
Through personalized instructional coaching, leadership development, and curriculum support, they help teams make data driven decisions that improve student outcomes. Their approach is built on collaboration, reflective planning, shared problem solving, and a relentless focus on what's best for kids. Whether you lead a single building or an entire district, Kids first meet your team where they are. See how they can support Your school or your system Kids First LLC. That's Kids First LLC. Is there anything, Naftali, that you, you'd recommend that a leader would like? Never delegate away.

22:03
Speaker 1
To never delegate away. Yeah, yeah, I talk about that in the book as well. So there are some things where you need to be the face and the voice, for example. So if you're dealing with any PR related matters, light PR would be fine to have somebody else represent the school. But if it's something to the media, for example, you really want to be the face and the voice. Especially if it's something there where there's, God forbid, some kind of danger or some kind of issue that is going to be front and center in the community. You need to be the face and voice there wherever possible. You also don't want to be delegating personnel decisions to other people.

22:38
Speaker 1
Now, I'm not suggesting that you don't empower your, let's say mid level management, your assistant principals, et cetera, to be able to hire personnel that they feel is appropriate, but if that person is in any way attached to you, then you need to be providing them with the guidance and support and that kind of thing and the ultimate feedback about how well they're doing or not doing. Because delegating is not abdicating. I think it's an important distinction. The goal is not to punt away responsibility. Now, if I do give you responsibility because you genuinely have earned it, that's fine. But it still should be associated back with me and with the authority that has been granted to you as my representative. In a way. Right. It's kind of interesting.

23:23
Speaker 1
People often think, I know this is not your question, but I'm going to transition here because it's a nice window by which to do so. I mentioned Ken Blanchard before and the trust model, the ABCD trust model. In addition, he has a great model around the concept of situational leadership, which at its core says that you handle leadership situationally or based on the ability and the motivation and other considerations of the person you are delegating to. Which wasn't a question we've dived in, dove into yet, but we could right, who's the right person? But regardless, you might find somebody who's young and inexperienced that you think over time will be fantastic. But right now they need a lot of directing. Do this, don't do that. Then you're going to move into coaching and eventually supporting and then finally delegating.

24:17
Speaker 1
So delegating is actually the fourth and final stage of the process where you feel you can genuinely hand this off to somebody and they're going to do a Cracker Jack job because you have trained them, you've seen them at work, you know they have experience, et cetera. It doesn't mean you never check in with them, but it does mean that for the most part, you can hand it off to them because, you know, they got this. And that's something we should be thinking.

24:40
Speaker 2
About as well with those layers. What I'm hearing you say is like the development process. Right. And building capacity within your team and sure, you know, you invited me to continue the conversation. So double click on the idea of, like, how do you decide who are the people on the team you should be delegating to?

25:00
Speaker 1
So I think it's going to be a combination of. It's going to be the net result of a variety of things. It's not like you're going to have just somebody sitting there, like your sixth man on the bench, who's not in the game and just waiting for the opportunity to get into the game. If you're delegating from within, you're finding somebody who already has a job and you have to decide, am I going to layer something additional onto their current responsibility? Am I going to take something off of their plate and put something else on instead? Do I need to bring somebody else in from outside in order to fill a void?

25:34
Speaker 1
So, going back to the example that I mentioned at the beginning with the individual who was our office manager, we brought in some people underneath her to handle some of the secretarial and other administrative functions within the office so that she could have the space and the capacity to do the things were now asking her to do. Who do you specifically choose? Again, it's going to be based off of a variety of considerations. Do you have that person in house? Do you feel that person with the right kind of training and support can grow into this new role if they haven't done it in the past? Or do you feel that you really don't have that capacity from within? You need to look elsewhere. There's no right or wrong answer to the question. It's really going to be very situationally dependent.

26:20
Speaker 1
And you also have to ask yourself, do I honestly have the capacity and bandwidth to take somebody who may not be trained today and train them? Some people love the opportunity to take somebody who's new or who is coming into a new space because they feel like they can mold them in their image. Right. They're not. They're not biased with pre existing ways of doing things, they're open to their way because their way for them is the only way as far as they can tell. But on the other hand, you bring somebody who's experienced though they may have a way of doing things, at least they've had a, they've had a history of success. So everyone's going to choose different. The point though is you got to choose because if you don't, you're back to the problems we talked about earlier.

27:02
Speaker 2
Yeah. So yeah, let's talk about that. Let's say I'm a ruckus maker. I've been creating really tremendous results on campus. But I'm realizing that, you know, I am the bottlene or you know, that I'm starting to burn out or whatever and I'm hearing Naftali talk and becoming delegating school boss. I'm all in.

27:20
Speaker 1
Right.

27:20
Speaker 2
I want to learn. So what would be that like first quick win. They're creating that results but again, they're holding on too much.

27:30
Speaker 1
Yeah, I like to encourage people to start small.

27:34
Speaker 2
Yeah.

27:34
Speaker 1
Because like any new process, you're going to make mistakes. So even if you have the book and you're following it, you know, stage by stage, you're still going to make mistakes. So if you can give, if you can hand off a task. I like two things actually, Danny. Number one, relatively low risk, you know, low stakes, and number two, flexibility in outcome. So for example, let's say I, and this is a personal example, I am way too much of a perfectionist in some areas, especially when it comes to things like the school newsletter. So I, not only did I have to write my own head of school message every week, but I also wanted to make sure the rest of it had that professional feel to it.

28:16
Speaker 1
And so I'm spending way too much time line editing the school newsletter and worrying about is there an extra space over here and the positioning of a picture over there. That kind of thing. Totally should not be doing that. But that's my reality. So here's a great opportunity I'm going to delegate the school newsletter into. Now we had somebody. So it was not the perfect example. I was just like overriding or sort of stepping in. That's a different issue of when a leader steps on people's toes. I did plenty of that too.

28:47
Speaker 1
So I mean, I don't know how much self flagellation we have time for on this podcast episode, but the point is that let's just assume for the moment that I didn't have somebody that was squarely in place for that position, I might say to even a teacher or somebody else on staff, hey, our newsletter is really in a really important vehicle for parents to know what we're doing, and really it speaks to the culture and the vibe of our school. I'm holding on to way too much of it right now. This is my vision. I'm not married to this exclusive vision, but I want to make sure that we have at least these elements to it. So you give them a sense of what the outcome should be, and then you give them an opportunity to start to run with it.

29:30
Speaker 1
Now, if you're still afraid that you're giving them too much space, a way by which to do it could be the same way. Like, for example, with my website. So my website, you see what I let you see. There are pages that are enabled and there are pages that are not enabled, and those might be seasonal pages or other things that I'm not necessarily interested in having you see on the website for the time being. But they're there, so I could at any point enable that page, and then it becomes part of the navigation, part of the website, et cetera. You could have somebody create, let's just say, as an example, 3, 4, 5 concurrent newsletters that don't actually see the light of day. They don't actually go to print, but they're created as if they would. Or you could do this.

30:15
Speaker 1
Well, let's say you want to hand off your emails, you know, you're writing daily emails, or you're writing weekly emails, you're writing whatever it is to keep people updated. Right. You want to hand that off. So you give somebody an opportunity to write them as if they're going out, even if you ultimately choose not to send them. But you're starting to give them the experience and you're starting to empower them slowly. And as you look and see what they do and what works for you and what doesn't, and you give them feedback, ultimately you can step back and give them that space and give them opportunity to publish, if you will, that which they're working on.

30:49
Speaker 2
Well, in the example, I think what I'm hearing is that people are able to put in reps, but maybe they're not public. Right. So they're training in private, you're giving feedback, their capacities, building their skill sets, getting stronger, and then at some point it will become public. But for now, we're training in private.

31:07
Speaker 1
Yeah. And one of the things that I wanted to mention is That I talk about this a lot, coming back to perfection versus excellence. So I might have a very high. I do have a very high standard for the things that I'm involved with, but not necessarily does everybody share that standard? And so, for example, you might think that, well, a newsletter must include XYZ or a faculty meeting has to look exactly like this or include these components. Or if we're going to do a. We're going to have some kind of, you know, student gathering, it has to look and feel a particular way. But the attendees don't necessarily share that perspective. In fact, they typically won't. And their standard of good enough is probably a lot lower than your standard of excellence.

31:57
Speaker 1
So if you're willing to let go, again, coming back to the idea, you're going for excellence if you can. But you don't necessarily have to worry that you might be personally disappointed that the person you delegated to didn't do XYZ in the moment. But the people who attended, they don't know to think differently. And so oftentimes we're in our own heads about what needs to happen. And it really doesn't have to be that way. And it could be just fine with the way that somebody else is doing it. So with your feedback and the general framework that you gave them and now the space that you're providing, oftentimes people are going to be very satisfied, especially if this is something that you've been meaning to get to and really always wanted to be able to add, but you never got to.

32:40
Speaker 1
But now you have a dedicated person and it gets done.

32:43
Speaker 2
Yeah. What's wild about that is if you have that criteria of whatever success is, if somebody does a great job. Right. But you have this other criteria and you measure it there, you're still disappointed, you're not able to see the great job. But I think the most important part of what you said there is, at least as I understood it, the audience you're serving the community, you're serving the stakeholders that you work for. If they were happy about with it, like, why aren't you? You know what I mean? Like, that should be good enough, you know? And. And how do you sort of meld those together? What would you say? What would you say to Ruckus Maker Salking? They've gotten started, but it's getting tough. And it's really easy to go back to the bad habits. But how do you keep it sustainable?

33:29
Speaker 2
What works for you?

33:30
Speaker 1
Yeah. So it depends on what the toughness, the tough issue is. So to Speak for them if it's a matter of time, meaning to say, I delegated something to you, but I'm having a hard time overseeing the process. One thing that I encourage people to do, I do a training on 13 steps to effective delegation. One of those steps is to build in opportunity for regular communication, for monitoring, to see what's going on, have regular check ins. So it doesn't feel like gotcha. Right. You don't want to leave alone. Zap. That's not a great strategy. So if you build in every Tuesday at 8, we're going to sit for 15 minutes and we're going to update each other on what's going on. It's kind of like a morning huddle, but in a more personal way.

34:12
Speaker 1
That type of thing that could be very powerful and very necessary. In addition, you have to say, well, if it's not working, what's the issue? Exactly. And again, maybe they weren't sufficiently trained. Maybe I had too much trust in them right now and they didn't say anything because they didn't want to disappoint. But they really weren't yet equipped for success. So a critical piece in any delegation process is being involved, helping to course correct, jumping back in as appropriate, and then of course when you're done, to review and to adjust. Meaning to say, if I look back and said I really could have done this differently or better, how can I do it better the next time? So you take those notes so that when you do have a next time, you know, you're better prepared.

34:59
Speaker 1
But I also want to mention that oftentimes my steps often look like a linear process. Like I identify the person, the need and kind of like walk them all the way through. That's fine, that's for a one off type of project. But much of the delegation that we're talking about is ongoing. There's no necessary end to the process. Right. When I delegated admissions or marketing or classroom visitation or something else to different people, it wasn't like I was planning on having them do it for three months and then stop. The goal was then for them to take that on as a permanent part of their job description moving forward. So it's not necessarily going to have that linear feel to it, but you still do have the ability to pause, reflect, see what's working, what isn't, make appropriate adjustments.

35:47
Speaker 1
And if necessary, sometimes you do have to do this, pull it back and then try again with somebody else or in a different time, in a different way.

35:55
Speaker 2
Yeah, well, it was wild to Me with my admin assistant. She said this was the first time she was ever asked. And she, you know, she had been at the school longer than anybody, but one thing I delegated to her was, you know, make a map for me to observe the teachers, right? Get it on my calendar. You tell me where to be, when to be there. And at first she was. She was pretty, I think, actually a little bit scared to do it because she said, I've never done this. I don't want to mess it up, how the teacher's going to react. Da, da. So we. We set up, you know, what does success look like? And here's what a job well done, you know, looks like, feels like. But it was great. It was great.

36:32
Speaker 2
And then she, you know, she loved doing it because she got to boss me around. Danny, you got to be here, here, and here or check in. Did you go to the place? Right? Did you go to the class? How did it go? And, you know, that was a lot of fun for me. So, yeah, delegation's great. Ruckus Maker approved becoming the delegating school boss. For sure. Pick that up. It's a big topic. Is there anything we missed that you wish would have been included in our conversation?

36:58
Speaker 1
I don't think so. I think the main thing is the call to action, to actually get started. Because as we talked about at the beginning, you know, so many school leaders are reluctant for the variety of reasons. And ultimately, I don't mean to be so blunt, but, you know, I'm from New York, so I can say this.

37:15
Speaker 2
Do it.

37:15
Speaker 1
You know, just do it. You just stop making excuses. Just do it. Because at the end of the day, everybody benefits. Literally everybody. Everybody benefits.

37:25
Speaker 2
That's right. Well, thanks again for joining me on the show.

37:28
Speaker 1
Thanks. It was an absolute pleasure. Great to see you again.

37:33
Speaker 2
Hey, Ruckus Maker, thanks again for pressing play. I hope you enjoyed today's episode as much as I enjoyed creating it for you. And before you go, if today's show shifted something in your mind or sparked an idea about how you could do school different, then I think you'd be a great fit for what we call the Ruckus Maker Mastermind. The Mastermind is a private community of innovative school leaders who meet weekly to grow, reflect, and disrupt the status quo. You can create the campus experience your staff and students deserve. Applications are now open and go to betterleadersbetterschools.com apply to put your application in.

  Transcribed by https://fireflies.ai/