The Real Reason Principals Burn Out (And How to Fix It)

00:00
Speaker 1
Foreign. 

00:03
Speaker 2
Most school leaders think professionalism means leaving their personality at the door. And that's exactly why so many campuses feel lifeless and so many principals feel burned out. Because when school becomes nothing but data compliance and putting out fires, you don't just lose joy, you lose momentum. In today's episode, we have an adorable red hats reunion with three friends who refuse to lead like robots. We have Mitch Weathers, you know, the guy that Mitch. We have Dan Watt, who's a fan favorite, recurring guest, co host of this podcast, Mastermind Coach, and apparently now a certified worm farmer. And me. I'll describe myself in a bit. We talk about why the weird stuff matters. Gardens, hydroponics, composting, language learning, and bringing your real interests into the building. Not as a distraction from work, but as the thing that makes the work sustainable. 

01:03
Speaker 2
We also get into this idea of pay yourself first, how to do it financially but also emotionally. What to do when you're burnt out and don't even know what fills your cup anymore and why. The best schools aren't run by heroes. They're run by leaders who know how to enroll conspirators. My name is Danny Bauer. This is Better Leaders, Better Schools, the original Ruckus cast for visionary leaders who want to do school different to reimagine this project called Education Even within a traditional system so that we create a campus experience that's worth showing up for. Thanks to Ruckus makers just like you, this show ranks in the top 1% of nearly 4 million worldwide podcasts. So once again, thanks for listening and we'll be right back after a quick message from our show sponsors. 

02:00
Speaker 2
Looking to create the kind of campus experience students never forget. ODP Business Solutions transforms ordinary spaces into extraordinary learning environments. Visit ODPbusiness.com education and let's do school different. That's ODP business.com education school district challenges don't look the same everywhere right now. Some are seeing hiring improve. Others are still navigating staffing gaps and increasing demand. Frontline Education's 2026 K12 lens report helps connect those dots with insights from more than 1,000 school leaders nationwide. You can get the full [email protected] leaders get the full [email protected] Leaders if you could differentiate instruction in 20 minutes or less, would you do it for all your students? Well, you can with IXL. Over 1 million teachers use IXL because it empowers them to use effective data informed instruction. 

03:16
Speaker 2
And you can get started [email protected] leaders that's ixl.com leaders Corey talked to Digital Danny 910 times in just five months and when I asked him about why he hired Digital Danny he said, well, the first job was to communicate things, those high stake messages I needed to share, a non renewal of the teacher, a difficult parent situation and I needed those message to land and Digital Danny helped. I had an idea of what I wanted to share but Digital Danny gave me other ways of thinking about how to communicate based on the stakeholder. So if you have high stakes messages that you need to land as well, maybe you should hire Digital Danny for that job as well. Get started and try for yourself at myprincipalcoach.com Ruckus that's my principalcoach.com Ruckus. All right, adorable red hats united here. 

04:24
Speaker 2
And this is wild because everybody's wearing a red hat, number one. Number two, not only am I joined by my bud Mitch Weathers, but also Dan Watt, who at this point people know Dan. He's been interviewing me at this point a couple times I think on the pod. So you won't be a stranger there. And just to remind everybody, if you want to be a guest, literally, Dan emailed us. Send an email to helloadorableredhats.com and just let us know how you're doing. School different, right? Like what you want to jam on. And we'd love to have you on the show. If you're weird, we'll probably just make fun of you for 45 minutes, but if you're cool, we'll jam. 

05:05
Speaker 1
What I really love is that when that invitation was accepted, you guys sent me a red hat. People need to know that. 

05:13
Speaker 3
Oh, cats out of the bag. Just kidding. 

05:17
Speaker 2
We have hats to send. We have hats to send. So it was nice. We got some on sale from Gap Factory. So that was pretty cool as well. 

05:26
Speaker 3
Nice though. Really nice. 

05:28
Speaker 2
Really nice. Really good red beanie. But Dan, glad you're here. 

05:32
Speaker 3
Yeah man. 

05:32
Speaker 2
What's some of the stuff like. Yeah, catch us up. What do you want to what do you want to jam on today? 

05:36
Speaker 1
Well, I think a fun story that I like to tell often is I'm an elementary principal. For starters. I currently an elementary principal. I've also been a secondary vice principal. I live in northern British Columbia, Canada. So for those of you that know Canada as or B.C. As the left coast, it's a big province. I'm about 500 miles from the coast and the interior plateau of B.C. And about five years ago maybe a little. Four years ago I planned a self funded leave. And I was super excited leading up to that leave because my wife and I and our kids at the time had planned a lot of travels. 

06:20
Speaker 1
We were really excited about doing the two week starter trip to get our backpacks figured out and then heading overseas counterclockwise and making some big stops, like two, three months in a place and settling in and living in a few different places around the world for 14 months. And if anybody else remembers, 2019, 2020 was a bit of a momentous year in the world and I had to cancel. Yeah, I had to think about, like, do I want to cancel my leave or do I want to reimagine what that leaves will look like? So I went with the second option, decided to take the leave because as I say, it was self funded. 

07:04
Speaker 1
So I'd reduced my income by a third for three years and that money went in the bank so that in the fourth year I had a year off with full pay. And where I'm at, we go off in the beginning of July and go back to school in the beginning of September. So I had a full 14 months to figure out. So I sat down with my wife and we decided that were going to reimagine what adventure would look like in our own backyards. And what that came to for me was a couple of really fun things. By about January, I was getting stir crazy. And I connected with a friend who lives east of town, about an hour east of town, so very rural. And he has an organic San Marzano tomato farm. And he was planting seeds in February. 

07:49
Speaker 1
So I said, hey, can I come on out and help? And they're all heated sand trays inside a double walled greenhouse. So a greenhouse in a greenhouse so that his seeds can germinate and come to fruit by harvest time. And after that initial planting, he decided to apply for a grant from the Canadian government and he hired me. So I went and worked on his farm for one to two days a week all through that summer. And then it ended up culminating in a week in August where I babysat his farm for a week while he went on a holiday, because farmers don't get holidays very often. So I learned how to be an organic tomato farmer in my year off. And the other thing that was super fun and really exciting for me was I really wanted to travel. 

08:35
Speaker 1
And so instead of traveling, I decided to learn a language. And I started with Duolingo. And shortly after it started that I met a lady at my gym and was telling her about how I started duolingo and I'm really loving it. And she says, oh, you should hook up with my sister. She lives in Mexico and she teaches Spanish on Zoom. And I said, great, connect us. So we got together, Isabel and I took Spanish lessons from her for a couple days a week, a couple hours a week through the rest of my leave. And then my first year back at school and. And then eventually an hour a week. And I've only just recently decided not to continue with live lessons. Okay, one of my Saturday mornings back. But that adventure, those two adventures in particular were highlights of that year off. 

09:23
Speaker 1
And I mentioned those because they definitely have informed my return to school. 

09:29
Speaker 2
Tell us more about how that informed. 

09:31
Speaker 1
Your return to school. You bet. So as a school principal, I have a lot of latitude to do what I like. One of the best parts of the job. And so I have brought both those interests of mine to school with me. So we have indoor garden, we have hydroponics set up. We have outdoor gardens, which I end up having to water a lot in the summer, but it's still really fun. So I try to find projects like that I'm interested in and bring to school because it makes it a whole lot more fun to show up at work when we're doing stuff that I love. And in both those examples, it's not really hard to co opt conspirators and get them involved. Grade 1 teachers love to grow seeds, and so we end up with more starter seeds than we can handle. 

10:16
Speaker 1
So for instance, last year we had probably, I don't know, at least a dozen flats. And a flat has, I don't know how many tomato plants in it, like dozens. So we had dozens of tomato plants to give away. So kids are taking home tomato plants and popping them in their garden. We grew tomatoes off the side of our school that we then got to eat. So much fun. 

10:37
Speaker 3
Did a bunch go in your front yard? 

10:40
Speaker 1
No, no. We mostly grew our own tomato seeds from scratch at home. Both you guys will know the audience may not that I have a pretty fulsome front yard garden. We've turned our whole lawn into garden. And so I bring that to school. We just had a squash for dinner last night, a jaradale squash. And we dried or so we're soaking and we will dry the seeds. And I'm going to spread those seeds to the greater one class. Right? So everybody get to take home some samples of this jaradale. It's an heirloom variety, so super unusual. They have a really blue gray kind of skin. They almost look like a ceramic decoration you'd get from Michael's or something. Yeah. Anyways, super fun and kids love it and it's a fun thing to do in a school setting. And same thing with languages. 

11:33
Speaker 1
I still continued with Spanish and I started on French a while ago. And we have a lot of immigrants at our school. Well, not a lot, but like probably 10% of our population mostly refugees from war torn nations. So a lot of kids from Ukraine, so I'm picking up a few words in Ukrainian and that sort of thing. Kids from Poland, kids from Israel, from that neck of the woods where things aren't going so well in the world. But it's fun and kids love it. 

12:03
Speaker 2
Oh, yeah, it's super cool. You know, this is now the Radical Roots Garden show where we talk mulch to do about nothing. Starting the redhead, adorable red hat guys. Yeah. And we're nerding out about that. But, you know, I think to me, the school leadership. School leadership connection, if we still have ruckus makers listening, since we're just nerding out about gardening. Bringing. Bringing your personality. Right. And interests and hobbies to the buildings is a gift. It's a beautiful thing. Yeah, well, and Danny, it's mulch to do about. 

12:41
Speaker 1
About something, I would say, because that mulch. We never got to talk about my indoor worm farm. So I got my grade two started on compost. 

12:50
Speaker 3
They must love that. 

12:52
Speaker 1
They do. And so you can just imagine like every couple of months we have to take that compost apart. So we lay out a giant sheet of plastic in the classroom, a couple of tarps, and we dump it into 22 piles. And everybody gets a pile that they tease apart, put the worms back in the bin and pull out the soil for the plants. But that to me is a system. It's a human system and it's prioritizing human well being. I would say kids having their hands in the dirt is a good thing in a school setting. 

13:22
Speaker 2
To me, it's a great thing. 

13:24
Speaker 1
And I think. 

13:24
Speaker 3
What are you composting, Dan? Is it. Is it lunch scraps and things from school or what's going into the compost with the worms? 

13:32
Speaker 1
Yeah, it's carefully curated lunch scraps because not anything can go in. A compost, of course, has to be raw, but out we supplement it with paper from the paper shredder. And I'm not kidding around, I have an actual worm composter in my office. I think I wrote about it on Substack. Recently. It is a joy to behold. It is a. Yeah, I love worm farms ecosystem. Yeah, it's a super great conversation starter when kids come to the office for, because they're in trouble or something. I might do a little redirection with the worm farm before we get down to it, but. 

14:06
Speaker 2
Yeah, that, well, how many worms do they have to eat before they go back to class? 

14:10
Speaker 1
Oh, none. 

14:12
Speaker 2
None man, you're not. That's very Canadian. You know, if you were down south, we'd make those little kids eat some worms and send them back to. Send them back to. Classic. 

14:23
Speaker 3
Yeah. 

14:23
Speaker 1
I love the paper. 

14:24
Speaker 3
The paper part's interesting because the worm farm will collapse without that. You, it just gets too wet. The shredded paper makes a big deal. 

14:33
Speaker 1
Yeah. And my worm farm in the office has a drainage tray in it with the spigot to drain that off. 

14:38
Speaker 3
Yeah. 

14:39
Speaker 1
The, the one in the classroom has two Rubbermaid tubs in a sense. It's got a Rubbermaid tub with holes drilled in the bottom and then the second lid that sits underneath on a couple of two by fours crossways so it can drain into something. It's a bit of a hassle to drain that off but. Oh my goodness, that liquid is so great for your plants. 

14:58
Speaker 3
Compost tea, you know, it's what they call it, compost tea. 

15:01
Speaker 2
Wow. 

15:03
Speaker 3
Yeah, that's cool, man. I think it if, and you said grade twos into the worms. I, I, I'd put it up against any grade K through 12 like an active worm farm. It's just super fascinating. Interesting. And if done right, not even stinky. 

15:19
Speaker 1
Right. 

15:19
Speaker 3
People think like, ooh, yep, no you don't. It's just incredible. 

15:24
Speaker 1
Sometimes it just needs another layer of paper on top. Right, right. Well and you're absolutely right. Grade range comes into it because it introduces a new concept and new interest into the school. So just last week I ordered a kit off of Amazon for some hydroponic indoor stuff. And it's just for herds and that sort of thing because it's the dead of winter here, of course. But this grade seven showed an interest and I was like, sure, no problem buddy. We've got lettuce and kale sprouting in our youth care workers room now and he's in there every day checking on his seeds and talking about it with his friends. Super cool. 

16:00
Speaker 2
Cool. 

16:01
Speaker 1
Yeah. 

16:02
Speaker 3
So any ruckus maker out there, can they reach out to Dan Watt if they want to know more how to bring worms and hydroponics.com vermicomposting.com. 

16:14
Speaker 1
Better get a landing page. 

16:18
Speaker 3
No, but seriously, someone might be like, how do you do that? I wonder if someone will reach out to you. 

16:22
Speaker 1
Yeah, that would be super cool, actually. And you know, you might think like, that's a kind of a niche thing that nobody's going to be into, but when I started that, my secretary got super interested. She's like, what the heck are you doing in your office? Because I literally have this tray. It's about as long as my keyboard and as wide as a laptop. And it's a four decks, a little condominium for worms. She ended up buying one and now she has one at home in her condo. 

16:47
Speaker 3
What? 

16:47
Speaker 2
Okay, that's so cool. Well, yeah, I mean, so your email, I think is Dan Watt at Ruckus Makers News or Dan Watt at Better Leaders, Better Schools dot com. So either of them will go to the same inbox. But yeah, reach out if there's something we can do on that piece. And you know, I was saying it's great, it's a great gift to bring your personality to the, to the school. And it's a mistake. So often people just want to be about the work in the numbers, right? Love people, we love principals, love talking about the work. And that's how they talk about it too, right? The work. Like it's so important and they forget, you know, how much more important just real life is. And so bringing that personality to it is so important. And you said. I like the word. 

17:33
Speaker 2
You said conspirators. Like it wasn't hard. In the other podcast that we recorded, this was back episode 75. So if people want to go check it out, that one came out in June. But were talking about the idea of enrollment. That's what you're doing, right? You're saying, hey, I've got this cool thing with worms and with composting. You're invited. You want to play with me, you know, in this? And people said, yes. And so it makes the learning come alive and kids and families, teachers, they'll be talking about those experiences for a very long time. Right? It's not the worksheets, it's not the stupid test scores and all the other stuff. It's the, it's the human aspect of it. 

18:15
Speaker 1
Yes. Yeah, I'd say that isn't a distraction from the work. It becomes the work. It makes the work sustainable because folks are having fun showing up. 

18:24
Speaker 2
How about that? 

18:25
Speaker 3
You could have fun at school and finding interesting ways to connect the work to all of this. Right. Not that it? 

18:34
Speaker 1
Yeah, because there absolutely are curricular connections. Yeah, for sure. 

18:38
Speaker 3
Talk about bringing the curriculum to life, you know, Definitely. 

18:42
Speaker 2
Dan, what would you say, though, to like a ruckus maker listening? That's not, you know, in Canada, I don't know how common it is to be able to take a leave like you were talking about and that kind of thing, you know, and here in America and I've had the privilege and honor. Right. To live in a few places abroad. And you see, like, that's one thing we can learn from other cultures, like maybe not grinding all the time, you know, pausing, slowing down, so forth. But yeah. What would you say to people that may not have some of the same type of options or benefits, like, how could they reproduce kind of what you did, but maybe just at a smaller scale because I don't want somebody to hear like, well, yeah, that'd be great to take a year off. 

19:25
Speaker 2
Can't do that, you know, because I'm in. I'm in Washington, D.C. i'm in Portland. I'm in Sacramento,. 

19:35
Speaker 3
Slumming it. 

19:36
Speaker 1
I dream of Sacramento. You can grow oranges and lemons there. 

19:40
Speaker 3
Oh, you should see my Meyer lemon tree, Dan. 

19:43
Speaker 2
Okay, don't get them started. Don't get them started about my weight. 

19:47
Speaker 1
Well, I guess part of it, Danny, would be that idea of paying yourself first is however you want to take that figuratively or literally. But that was how it worked financially on my end. Obviously, my district had to be willing to sign off on that. And that is a part of the process in our district is a superintendent has to sign off. But it is common in B.C. It's a common practice that exists. But the part that made it work was that I was willing to take a reduction in pay. So I guess if you could scale that up or down in a way that might work so that you're able to, in a sense, pay for yourself to be off. Because the district doesn't want to do it because they have to pay for your replacement. Right. So paying yourself first. 

20:33
Speaker 1
And I say figuratively and literally because I think there's more than one way to do that. And I think a little bit of what you're alluding to with taking time and creating space is that whole human leader that we all strive towards bringing the fun and the personal to school, to. To work. I think that is a part of what allows me to be in the job now four years later and for it to be sustainable for me, because I took that year off and something we haven't talked about is that stress lead that I took previous that didn't go well. That wasn't a great way to leave and it had to happen. I had to take that leave or else it was not going well. 

21:20
Speaker 1
So to be able to plan for it was a much better way of allowing myself to step back. 

21:28
Speaker 2
Yeah. 

21:28
Speaker 1
So I'm not sure if that answered your question, but I think a focus on personal wellness is something that you and I talk about a lot, Danny. And it's really important to me that could be a part of a system helping somebody show up in a joyful way rather than a burned out one. Right. Is that I got a plan. I'm looking forward to a three day weekend instead of a two day weekend or maybe on a grander scale, a year off. 

21:54
Speaker 2
Well, I know too. Like, I mean, part of what makes it possible. I love the pay yourself first and if we're honest, like I'm gonna generalize here, but I think there's data to support. 

22:03
Speaker 1
Right. 

22:03
Speaker 2
A lot of Americans live outside their means, you know, and so if you can be smarter and yeah, just make some potentially better choices. Right. So that you could squirrel some money away over here that affords you to do something like you did Dan, because then you have that you've paid yourself first. In the business space. There's a really popular book, I don't know if you ever read this one, Mitch, but it was called Profit first. And that's actually a philosophy that I've been doing with my business since I read it. And probably in the business I've been doing that for about eight years. But the way Profit first sort of flips the paradigm, which is a very ruckus maker thing to do. 

22:48
Speaker 2
Usually businesses are out there and I don't know, they're, they're paying their bills, which they should paying their team, you know, they got all the expenses, all this kind of stuff and you know, hopefully paying their taxes or they're getting in trouble with the irs. They're paying themselves, but then they look, you know, at the end of the day and there's no money to pull for the profit. Which is kind of what makes business fun at times, is like there's a little treasure trove there. Right. Like Dan knows, like the last two years we've been doing the National Lampoon's Christmas bonus. Right. So we can all buy a pool for our backyard and that's something I love to do. And everybody on the team, right? Gets, gets something. And it wasn't a part of the agreement when they started. It was just a surprise. 

23:34
Speaker 2
Right. But one of the reasons we can do that is because the profit first mentality, last thing I'll say about that is then what you do is you take, you actually you say up until a certain point of revenue, I'm going to take a percentage, let's say 10%. That's going to be profit. And for every check that comes in, right. Somebody joins the mastermind. And so if that's 30 $500, 10%, 350 boom. Goes to the profit account immediately. There's a percentage that goes to sort of owner pay. There's a percentage that goes to expenses and a percentage that goes to taxes. And you, for every time you get paid, you siphon it off like that. And therefore you're, you got it all under control but you don't spend it. Right. It's, it's been earmarked so hopefully that made sense. 

24:24
Speaker 2
But pay yourself first, profit first really great thing. I mean at the end of the day it's just about prioritizing priority, prioritizing you first. Right. Which is a good thing to do. Put on the oxygen mask. 

24:37
Speaker 1
Doing that figuratively is important. Right. Because we also need to do that on a daily basis and put in reps at the gym or go for a walk or a run or spend time with family members so we're not losing those connections outside of work. 

24:51
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah,. 

24:55
Speaker 3
Right. To if. If what. What advice do you two have for the school leader who hears that and says like, oh, you know, I like this idea of like I don't want to be burnout or I am burnout, but maybe haven't identified what they're, what fills their cup. What is it that. And I, and I would I can just say going out because I also took a sabbatical teaching. I took a half a year sabbatical because my district actually offered it. Same thing, reduction. It was a reduction in pay. Not, not paid without or leave without pay. But it was same thing. It was a sacrifice we had to plan for. Was right when I was starting organized Binder and my superintendent's like, you need to take this time. And it was something this district offered. 

25:39
Speaker 3
But if you can carve out the time, even if you don't know what fills your cup, figuring that out and taking that time with the intent of trying to figure out how to come back, even if it is that three day weekend, the day you took off isn't just a Day to catch up on all the stuff you need to do. Really stepping out and saying, okay, I don't meditate. What's it mean to meditate? Just trying to figure out what might make that switch for you. 

26:07
Speaker 2
Want to share something? 

26:09
Speaker 1
Yeah, Yeah. I know this will be coming out later, but my advice would be to show up for the resilient leader program I'm offering. 

26:19
Speaker 3
Absolutely. 

26:20
Speaker 1
And even better, come check out what the Mastermind has to offer because these are the kinds of things that we talk about every week in the Mastermind. I don't have enough time. Right. I hear that every single week, but I think that these are the kinds of things that we talk about. The Ruckus Maker Mindset tool is all those things that you both just described. Taking care of your wellness in all the various ways, financial included. Right. I think it's often we think about mind, body and spirit and not the other stuff like taking care of my family, taking care of my house and taking care of my finances, taking care of my work. Those are all a part of my whole human wellness. So, yeah, figure it out. 

27:04
Speaker 1
Danny often says, you got to put in the reps. And I. I like that phrase. That one's kind of sticking with me lately because for me, what it means is I need to do my best to show up every day and it's going to look different every day. That's why I really love this new Harada template that Danny's been working with lately. I've adopted that as well because for me, although I have this super goal at the center of it all and pillars around that super goal that contribute to the success over the long term. The tiny things around each pillar are almost like a menu board of options for things that I could work on today. So I really like that. 

27:41
Speaker 1
So that there's some flexibility and I don't have to feel like I'm crashing and burning because I didn't go to the gym two days in a row. 

27:47
Speaker 2
You know what, it is nice that menu, that menu piece, you don't have to hit it all every single day. And there's a lot of flexibility and options there. But if you're. If you're doing some parts right every day consistently, you know, you move, you're moving in the right direction and really, you know, having a good time there. 

28:04
Speaker 3
So Alba agrees. Dan, tell us real quick. 

28:08
Speaker 1
I picked six or eight that I want to do every day. Like I want to walk 20 minutes every day, bare minimum, no sugar, full stop. 

28:16
Speaker 2
Yeah. 

28:17
Speaker 3
Okay. Yeah. 

28:18
Speaker 1
So those are some daily habits that I want to squash, try and do every single day. And then in the next page, I keep my template so it's fresh there in my journal. When I'm referring back at the end of the day, how did my day go? Did I get to my daily habits and did I pick off anything on my Harada template? I find it super helpful. 

28:37
Speaker 2
Yeah. Mine's visible Quick. 

28:40
Speaker 3
You two know about it. This is your six part series. You say six? 

28:46
Speaker 1
Yeah. 

28:47
Speaker 3
Give us a quick just for people like me who I know about it because I've read a little bit. But what's happening? What's the reason for it? 

28:54
Speaker 1
Sure. 

28:55
Speaker 3
Give us the elevator pitch. 

28:57
Speaker 1
Yeah. It's a live experience. It's a six week program starting on January 29th. And it's a framework for school leaders in particular, but not exclusively for humans that want to move from overwhelm to something better. Could be awareness, who knows? I aim to offer a story every week and some specific actionable tools every week that folks can put to use right away in the session. And hopefully one session builds on from one to the next where we can refer back to the work you did last week as folks attend consecutive sessions. I mentioned that it starts January 29, but it will be recorded. And also it's part of a larger package that I put together last summer and Danny's kindly offered to allow me to host it in the Ruckus Maker Club. 

29:49
Speaker 1
It's starting in January, so that will be a live teaching as I mentioned. And then there's a separate standalone package that exists as well. 

29:57
Speaker 3
Can someone join if they don't catch the first session? Can you join midstream or is it not meant to be structured in that way? 

30:06
Speaker 1
I think I would like to hear from anybody that wants to learn more about it. 

30:09
Speaker 3
Cool. 

30:11
Speaker 2
Cool. For sure. And you know, by the time this releases is June, so it's way. It's way past the first one, but we'll run it. 

30:18
Speaker 3
This comes out in June. 

30:20
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah. 

30:21
Speaker 3
Dang. 

30:22
Speaker 2
But that being said, Mitch is saying that, Dear listener, because we're recording it's January 12th, but when you have the number one podcast in school leadership and everybody wants to. Wants a piece. 

30:35
Speaker 3
All right, I know, I thought this. 

30:39
Speaker 2
It is. And it comes out once. One of those. Four weeks. Four to five weeks it comes out. Now we have Dan Watt and me wants one of those sections. Right. So. 

30:49
Speaker 3
Right. 

30:50
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah. But we'll run the res. I mean, people will need to be resilient and building resilience you know, that's a great topic to be thinking about in the summer as well. And so anyways, don't worry. 

31:02
Speaker 1
Yeah. 

31:02
Speaker 2
If you're listening, checking this out and you miss something, just get involved the next time. Right. We've talked about the Harada Method. That was like the Resilient Leaders, a paid training. We did the Harada Method, that was a free training. Right. People show up, people don't. It's up to them if you know you're going to engage or not and get the value. I will say Dan Watt, who's been to, like, basically everything I've taught, he said that was the best one yet. Right. So if you missed it, you really missed out. 

31:28
Speaker 1
Yeah. Two thumbs up for that Harada Method and the template that was shared. 

31:33
Speaker 2
Yeah, it was good. I mean, everybody I know is fired up, actually. And Dan, I won't say her last name, but Aaron, who wrote in and wanted to join the Resilient Leader, she mentioned that Harada Method was awesome and she talked about I'm using it every day. Right. And Again, this is January 12th. We did this training, I don't know, mid December before the break because I took a few weeks off, but people who were there like, yeah, it was good. 

31:56
Speaker 1
So I think she's oni. 

31:59
Speaker 2
Yeah, probably. Here's the, here's the lesson. Sign up at Ruckus Makers News. Right. Like, if you're not on the free newsletter email list, then you're missing these opportunities. I, I unfortunately forget to put everything into the podcast at times. And also because we record and it's like so far ahead, I don't know what we're doing in June. Right. Like, that's just not how my mind works. So the best way to stay, like, up, up to date is to be on the newsletter. So again, Ruckusmakers, dot news, slash subscribe and you can get on there for free. Costs you nothing but time and attention and it only makes you better. Imagine that, huh? Do I want to be a better leader? Check. So subscribe for free, because that's the only thing that happens. 

32:46
Speaker 2
You become a better leader or you're a loser and you don't read it right. And then you unsubscribe. That's fine as well because we don't want to send you anything you don't want. But if you're not a loser and you like becoming a better leader, then join at Ruckus Makers. That news. Do you have a problem with how I'm framing that, Mitch? 

33:04
Speaker 3
No, not at all, I say. But I know that Dan soul. I know soul. Being out here on the west coast with me is like, you know, he knows your Chicago soul. 

33:15
Speaker 1
So I just. 

33:15
Speaker 3
I get it. I get it. 

33:17
Speaker 2
That is not how Dan. Do you want to say it a different way? 

33:19
Speaker 1
You can, like, come on, man, just show up, subscribe to the newsletter. We'll be kind. That's what I do my best to only bug folks once a week on there. 

33:29
Speaker 2
But here's the thing. Like, I'd challenge you, like, not reframe it. You're not bugging. Like, if somebody feels like you're bugging, that's actually their problem. That means they don't have their stuff in control. Their inbox is out of control. Whatever. That has nothing to do with you. Because, you know, I have. And we have sent daily emails, right? Sure. People unsubscribe. And that's fine if that's too much. But you know what I've seen every time we've done that, actually, an increase for the people that stick around. There's an increase in open rates and click rates. That means higher engagement. Why is that? So this is a leadership lesson. Like, people are like, oh, Danny's just this big jerk. Yes. And though I'm teaching you leadership lessons, which is whatever, you're creating the vision for your school. The worms. Right. 

34:19
Speaker 2
It's not for everybody, and that's okay. But for the people that it is for, they're going to be a hundred percent, thousand percent all in. And isn't that what you would want? Like a. Like a thriving, absolutely on fire team versus. Oh, we're trying to please everybody. I'm not trying to please everybody. Ruckus makers don't try to please everybody. 

34:42
Speaker 1
And when I write those newsletters on Sunday, I try to write them with a smile on my face. Literally. 

34:49
Speaker 3
Really? 

34:50
Speaker 1
Yeah, I do. I want to show up as a joyful leader for the readers like I do in person at my school. I want them to feel like, hey, there's a great takeaway from that. So useful. 

35:05
Speaker 2
Yeah, for sure. I do that too, just in a different way. 

35:09
Speaker 1
I'm sorry. 

35:15
Speaker 2
That was great. Cool. ODP Business Solutions, formerly Office Depot Business Solutions Division, has been a trusted partner for schools for 30 years. At ODP Business Solutions, we're by your side to meet your evolving education needs. Now picture this. A learning environment so engaging. Students forget to check their phones. Sounds impossible. That's exactly what we helped Belago Academy create. Their secret. Working with ODP Business Solutions to build collaborative spaces that actually work. We didn't just deliver furniture, we delivered a completely new way of learning. From tech integration that makes lessons come alive, to flexible spaces that adapt to any teaching style, to sustainable solutions that reduce your carbon footprint. We're here to help you do school different. And the best part? 

36:15
Speaker 2
You get it all from a single supplier, all to help you simplify ordering and streamline budgeting while staying compliant with easy access to cooperative contracts. However you want to advance. ODP Business Solutions has 30 years of experience helping districts like yours get ahead. Visit ODPbusiness.comeducation to learn more. That's ODPbusiness.com education staffing student support Operations Technology these challenges are often discussed separately, but they're deeply connected. Frontline Education's 2026 K12 lens report helps bring those connections into focus, showing how districts are navigating multiple pressures at once. With insights from over 1,000 school leaders. Frontline Education's K12 Lens report offers a clearer view of what's changing and how leaders are adapting their strategies. 

37:21
Speaker 2
Explore these insights by visiting FrontlineEducation.com leaders Get the insights of over 1,000 school leaders at FrontlineEducation.com leaders as a school leader, time is your greatest resource and there is a real sense of urgency when it comes to getting students what they need right now. That's why I love IXL's universal screener. In 20 minutes or less, you can identify students in need of intervention, and IXL's Learning Adaptive Platform makes differentiating instruction easy. As students learn, IXL adjusts to the right level of difficulty for each individual student. Get started [email protected] leaders. That's ixl.com leaders of all the principals who use Digital Dandy, the one who uses him the most lost a teacher in the first week of school. It was an abrupt resignation and students and staff thought about quitting or leaving the school. In response, this principal had to address his staff Monday morning. 

38:40
Speaker 2
The wrong tone in any direction would have made the situation worse. Too soft and it sounds like nothing happened. Too hot, and it sounds like you're blaming the teacher who left. What he needed wasn't a rider. He needed someone who'd sat in that same exact seat for hundreds of reps to help him land the right move. Teaching as a calling connection over compliance and then crafting the right words. The principal followed up with a speech and a memo to the staff that week, and it worked. If you also have high stakes messages that you need to land digital, Danny can help. He was built for this and you can get started with him@my principalcoach.com Ruckus. That's my principalcoach.com RuckUS. Any other, any other topics, Dan Watt, that you think are important or anything you want to explore here toward the end? 

39:54
Speaker 1
Yeah, well, I guess that was my. My piece that I wanted to share about sort of towards the end of this is when I first joined the Mastermind. My friend Chris Horton said, matt, you got to check this out. You've got to check this out. And eventually I listened to him and I gave Danny a call. And my goal at that time was to reinvigorate my feelings about showing up for work. I just wanted to feel passionate about something again. And it's funny how if you lean into something for a few years, you get your mojo back. And that's. That's how I'm feeling now. I feel like I'm able to show up as a joyful leader that I don't constantly react as I used to, with frustration or impatience that now sometimes I can show. 

40:41
Speaker 1
I can flip that switch and respond with humor or with joy. So that obviously makes a huge impact in my work life and I hope in my school and this community that I have the ability to influence. And it's one of the parts that I love about our work is we don't know the influence that we have. When a kid goes on from grade seven to high school in Canada because or B.C anyways, we don't have middle schools in my district, so they go to high school in grade eight, I don't see that kid again. But I never know the influence that a single conversation or interaction might have had. So how I show up really matters. 

41:18
Speaker 1
And the stuff that I'm learning about in the Mastermind, I know this isn't the sales, maybe it is for the Mastermind, but like, it really has changed my work life and I guess by extension my life like happier human here. 

41:32
Speaker 3
And everybody I know that has that same perspective, like coming into the Mastermind for those reasons and, you know, committing to a community as a part, not just coming showing up to receive like this is this part of this community. Everybody says the same thing, which I can't imagine doing it without that connection. 

41:55
Speaker 1
Well, and it's funny because I feel like offering this digital product and this live teaching is a bit outside. That's a lot outside my comfort zone. Definitely. Even though, like I'm a teacher and a principal, I'm nervous about it because I. I want it. It to be worthwhile for folks I Want to do a great job. And I feel like that is a worthwhile thing to lean into as well. And I wouldn't have had that opportunity if I wasn't showing up here on a weekly basis. So I'm super grateful for that. Nice. 

42:25
Speaker 2
Thanks, dude. 

42:26
Speaker 3
Very cool. 

42:27
Speaker 2
So, Mitch, you know this is airing in June. Is your book out by now? 

42:31
Speaker 3
Book is out. It'll be out in March. Pre orders. Pre orders are. I didn't even know. Someone message me and they're like, hey, it's on pre order on Amazon. But it's pre order at Corwin already. But, yeah, it'll be out in the world in real life. And like I told you, I'm speaking at Learning in the Brain in New York, and we wanted the physical copies ready by then. And then I'll be in July if you're in where the three of us spent some time together, the beautiful city of Nashville. I'll most likely be speaking at the annual Visible Learning conference in Nashville in July at some point, which is the big conference that Corwin puts on every year. 

43:13
Speaker 1
So I'll be speaking at that. 

43:14
Speaker 2
That's right. Yeah, yeah. 

43:17
Speaker 1
Maybe speak there Hong Kong in April to do some learning on Visible Learning. 

43:24
Speaker 3
Really? 

43:24
Speaker 1
Yeah. 

43:25
Speaker 3
No kidding. 

43:26
Speaker 2
We'll have to connect with Kyle. 

43:27
Speaker 3
You going to see Kyle? 

43:29
Speaker 1
Kale Burke. 

43:30
Speaker 3
I don't know Kale. 

43:31
Speaker 1
Yeah, that's the guy who's putting it on, so. 

43:34
Speaker 2
Oh, yeah, that's the event. But you're gonna connect with Kyle Wagner out there too, right? 

43:37
Speaker 1
Oh, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. And Jennifer Bertram, too. She's in Hong Kong now, so we've been messaging. 

43:44
Speaker 2
Brilliant. 

43:45
Speaker 1
Cool. 

43:47
Speaker 2
She did a terrible job of saying what the book's title is and stuff like that. So, I mean, pre orders now at this point don't matter because it's June. 

43:55
Speaker 3
Oh, that's right. 

43:56
Speaker 2
Right now it's June. 

43:57
Speaker 3
It's already hit bestseller, I'm sure. 

44:01
Speaker 2
Probably. 

44:02
Speaker 3
No, it's executive functions for every classroom, grades K through 3, which is different than my first book, which was grades three through 12. Happen to have a copy right here. This was three through 12, if you can see it. And the overwhelming feedback. There's one up in Canada even. Yep. Dan and I, we did a fun book study with his staff. But there. 

44:30
Speaker 2
Oh, One in Syracuse. 

44:31
Speaker 3
One in Syracuse, New York, man. It's. See, there's been 30 copies sold, and that's the only. If you sell three copies, including the one they give you as an author, you're a bestseller for Corwin. So that's Awesome. I hit that. Thanks to YouTube guy. No, but the really interesting feedback was from educators in grades even pre K, K12 and up into third. And the book really wasn't written for those specific learning environments which are just very different. You know and the quantum leap between even like pre K to first grade, they're just not the same spaces where if you jump to two years in high school or something, it's not quite so. Yeah, that's the name of the book and it's gray, it's blue. Look for the blue one as opposed to the green and white one. 

45:24
Speaker 3
Co authored it with my friend and colleague, the brilliant Sarah Oberle and she spent her career in first grade. So it's been a fun process. I'm really proud of it. Pick up a copy. But that's probably what I'll probably speak on both. Unfortunately Sarah can't make the visible learning event in July so I'll be there speaking either twice or one longer combo for. Because my real when I'm so happy about is supporting the development of executive functioning from kinder through 12th grade. That whole K12 sequence and even into pre K. And I tested it out for the first time I was in Pensacola, Florida last week speaking at a. 

46:08
Speaker 3
Working with a school there and in the audience it was pre k teachers through 8th grade and it was an all day 8 to 3pm professional learning session and it just, it works the second the book and that what we've unpacked there makes that K12, you know, work a reality. So super proud of it. 

46:29
Speaker 1
Will you do me a favor when you're in Nashville and go have a sandwich at Little Hats? 

46:34
Speaker 3
Yes. Is that where went three times. I love that place. Yeah. Because we could watch. 

46:39
Speaker 2
Was awesome. Shout Out Little Hats. Not a sponsor yet, but maybe one should be. 

46:45
Speaker 3
Yeah. 

46:45
Speaker 2
Yeah. 

46:46
Speaker 3
I just remember we got a lot. 

46:47
Speaker 2
Of sandwiches so hot. 

46:48
Speaker 3
And we would walk over there. Yeah, I'll definitely go back there for sure. 

46:52
Speaker 2
Shout Out. 

46:53
Speaker 3
That was a really fun event, I have to say. 

46:55
Speaker 1
Indeed. Yeah. 

46:56
Speaker 3
Hopefully Danny will put together another one here. 

46:59
Speaker 2
We'll see. I'm exhausted. So I don't know about this summer but I, if I do anything I, I, I kind of want to do just like who are five to ten super cool people that want to hang out and learn from each other and make that happen somewhere. 

47:15
Speaker 3
Fun that would be, you know, be interesting to explore. 

47:18
Speaker 2
Yeah, I've thought about maybe it's, maybe. 

47:21
Speaker 3
We just gather the People who've written. Written into. Hello, Red Hat. Dan, you're on. 

47:27
Speaker 2
I like that idea. 

47:29
Speaker 3
That'd be cool. 

47:30
Speaker 2
Us too, Joe. Jennifer, right? Was it Jen. 

47:33
Speaker 3
Jessica. Jessica. 

47:34
Speaker 2
Jessica. Jessica. 

47:36
Speaker 3
Yep. 

47:36
Speaker 2
Yeah. 

47:37
Speaker 3
So. So there's seven spots left as far as I hearing this. 

47:41
Speaker 2
Yeah. So far it's all west coast people and me. 

47:45
Speaker 1
Yeah, that's okay. 

47:46
Speaker 2
Which is in. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I love. 

47:48
Speaker 1
Nice. 

47:49
Speaker 3
We'll let you join us, Danny. We'll let you be a part of it. 

47:52
Speaker 1
Thanks. 

47:53
Speaker 3
We like, we like people from the east coast too. 

47:55
Speaker 2
Yeah, for sure. 

47:56
Speaker 1
For sure. 

47:57
Speaker 2
Well, what's everybody's takeaway and then we can end it there, I think. 

48:02
Speaker 3
Can I read something? I'm. I'm reading this book called as long. 

48:05
Speaker 2
As it's not your book. Yeah. Okay. 

48:06
Speaker 3
Not my book. This is an interesting read. It's, it's trying to make the, you know, science of learning really practical. But I think, Dan, what you're doing, the work you're doing, if I had to say a takeaway. Can I read something from this book that stood out to me on. I was reading it on the plane on the way home from Florida last week. Are you prepared to lessen the amount of content? Which is not what you're saying, Dan, but are you. 

48:31
Speaker 3
Are we prepared to lessen the amount of content we teach in order to provide more meaningful learning experiences that have a greater chance of leading to deeper learning, increased storage and long term memory and the acquisition of new skills where we get certainly in the secondary space we just get so content focused and driven and if there's not a worm farm or hydroponics or whatever it is for engagement and making connections to the content, you know, are we willing to potentially maybe teach a few less standards? Maybe not. Maybe we don't have to, but would be willing to do that because time's scarcity. Right. To do some of this work where we're doing it different that really resonated with me and that's kind of what I hear you, what you're doing, it's increasing engagement, it's fun. 

49:23
Speaker 3
You like it on top of it and it's interesting. 

49:26
Speaker 1
Yeah, well. And we didn't talk about BC's competencies as opposed to standards, but we are able to do that because we're not driven by the content. But I think this has been really. 

49:38
Speaker 3
Another reason to move to Canada. I digress. Go ahead, Dan. 

49:42
Speaker 1
That's my takeaway is just remembering what it means to be a joyful leader. This has been super fun to do in the middle of my workday. And as I was saying before we started recording, I've got four things like this going on today, before and after my workday, plus during. And that's a lot of fun. It's. It's good to make space for having fun at work. 

50:04
Speaker 2
Yeah, for sure. I'm gonna read from my book. 

50:09
Speaker 3
Oh, man, give me a break. 

50:12
Speaker 2
This is from Mitch Weathers, though. This is from Mitch Weathers. If. If school leaders put into action the entry plan carefully outlined in this book, the stress they are used to carrying into the school year will vanish. Right? Mitch Weathers, CEO. 

50:27
Speaker 3
I remember writing that. 

50:29
Speaker 2
Yeah, man. So thanks for the book. Praise. This one sells like Hot kicks still because it solves a very practical problem, which is I got the job or I've had the job and nobody's ever trained me how to create a 90 day entry plan. 

50:41
Speaker 3
Put that in the center, though. I don't. Yeah, it's not very long. There you go. Yeah. 

50:46
Speaker 2
Yeah. 

50:46
Speaker 1
It's a great. 

50:47
Speaker 2
Yeah. So build leadership momentum. But my biggest insight, pay yourself first. So, you know, I really like how Dan said that. You know, just prioritizing yourself with that song. We teach here. So thanks, guys. It's been fun. So adorable red hats and you a picture of my. 

51:01
Speaker 3
My elementary later today. Check your WhatsApp channel. 

51:05
Speaker 2
And if you want to be on this show, email [email protected] hey, you can comment on my new fancy video lighting behind. Is this like really. Is that really cool or what? 

51:20
Speaker 3
Yeah. 

51:21
Speaker 2
All right, cool. Hey, Ruckus Maker, thanks again for pressing play. I hope you enjoyed today's episode as much as I enjoyed creating it for you. And before you go, if today's show shifted something in your mind or sparked an idea about how you could do school different, then I think you'd be a great fit for what we call the Ruckus Maker Mastermind. The Mastermind is a private community of innovative school leaders who meet weekly to grow, reflect, and disrupt the status quo. You can create the campus experience your staff and students deserve. Applications are now open and go to betterleadersbetterschools.com apply to put your application in. 

  Transcribed by https://fireflies.ai/