Leadership Journeys: Failing Forward and Finding Community

Leadership Journeys: Failing Forward and Finding Community

Chief Ruckus Maker: Danny
All right. And Anna, welcome to the show. 

12:04
Ene
Thank you very much. 

12:07
Chief Ruckus Maker: Danny
So let’s start with the beginning. What was life in leadership like before joining the ruckus maker? Mastermind. 

12:17
Ene
I only did start formal leadership in education two years ago, which is almost about the same time I joined Brock coastmakers. So prior to that I was in leadership, but I think I’ve worked in schools where there are no titles to things. There were just extra leadership responsibilities, especially in the private school setting where there’s one person or a family ownership, and they want to keep things within. There’s no hierarchy, there’s no growth path, but they are leaders.  I was one of those leaders, and at that time, I was doing. I was leading a k two team. I was doing planning, I was doing mentorship, but I did that on the fly, not having any, what did I call it? Baseline to work by. I was just doing that. 

13:20
Ene
Fortunately, it was a small community, so I could ask questions, and I could feel forward. I think that’s the phrase that stood out to me at that time. Like, okay, I could try things, and if it worked out, fine. If it didn’t work out, fine, many times I didn’t understand the whys behind certain things. I was practicing, not until the recent past two years or so that I have gotten to maybe attach a concept with practice and a theory to practice or find out that, oh, other people are doing this elsewhere. So my time before ruckus was informal. Informal leadership. A lot of trial by practice, a lot of leadership by trying.that’s how I would say I had. I was before a ruckus maker. Yeah, pretty much. 

14:19
Chief Ruckus Maker: Danny
I admire that. There’s a lot of wisdom in failing forward or learning by doing, learning by trying. And what that indicates is that we all leaders, even me, all of us have stuff that could hold us back. That imposter syndrome, that negative voice in our head. Fear, worry, anxiety. But somebody like you says, you know what? But I’m going to do it anyway. I’m going to show up because my community needs me at this moment or whatever, and I’m going to learn from it. And I like to say, these days, there’s actually no such thing as failure, only learning.  And so you can learn from success, you can learn from failure, and as long as you’re continually learning, you’re probably getting better. I like that about you, Annie. Thank you. What about, like, the biggest challenge? 

15:15
Chief Ruckus Maker: Danny
So you had that k to two teams. And, maybe it was, you know, didn’t know as much, and so you were learning by doing. But what would you identify back then? What was the biggest challenge or struggle you had around school leadership? 

15:32
Ene
I think for me, I like the whole idea of accountability, and I like to be able to get feedback from what I’m doing. As much as I loved and enjoyed the trust that I had from my boss at the time, I felt feedback was lacking. I couldn’t tell what I was doing and doing well. I couldn’t tell how things were running and what tweaks I needed to make to get things going better or to do things differently. And so that was a big challenge. And for most of my time at that school, it was such a big challenge at that point, I tried to record myself, for example, in class or record myself during sessions just so I could sit back and, okay, take it apart and learn one or two things. I know at a point. We had a middle school teacher who just moved from the US, and she was a great science teacher.  One of those days, I walked up to her like, oh, would you come and sit in on my class and give me feedback? She was able to do that. I didn’t have that formal accountability and feedback loop, which I really like and I think is such a pivotal part of improving.  I think that was a major challenge that I had in that setting. 

16:53
Chief Ruckus Maker: Danny
Got it. Yeah. Feedback is important. I don’t know how leaders can grow in a vacuum or lack feedback. How do you know? We all have blind spots. We can’t see everything. And to have that type of feedback is so crucial. Was there a specific moment? I don’t know if it was like, yeah, I guess I’ll just ask it that way. Was there a specific moment that acted as a catalyst where you said, you know, something has to change, or, I need to join this group. Like, what was that? 

17:26
Ene
So do you mean, like before, just before joining the ruckus makers? 

17:32
Chief Ruckus Maker: Danny
I don’t know if there was something that said, like, that happened where it’s like, okay, I need this for myself, or if it was just a, you know what, now’s the time. You know, there’s no right or wrong to the answer. I’m just genuinely curious. 

17:46
Ene
I would answer that question this way. So because I was exposed to informal leadership, and even when I left that school, I went to a different school where I was doing some special ed work. It was very. It was very different. It was a much bigger school with very different dynamics and all of that. And at some point, I was bored. But then I tried to draw from the competency I had built in my previous school, and I found that, okay, so I have built this competency and that competency. I’m able to do XYZ, but what areas do I need to build capacity for? And I thought it was going to be leadership, right? Because more and more, I would find myself in spots and positions where I was able to support and help other teachers, even if not assigned directly to do that. 

18:37
Ene
So, that sounded like the next thing. And, okay, how else could I learn that? So, at the point where it hit the curve for me was when I was leaving my second school, I had resigned. I had resigned at the end of May, and I knew I wasn’t going there. I didn’t have a job to go to in August, but I knew that I wasn’t going back. And so I just started searching. I think that’s how I came upon your podcast, better leaders, better school podcast. Yes. I was just searching, and I. And I had notes. Yesterday, I just brought out my notebook, and I’m like, oh, I had these when I was listening to the podcast at the beginning. That’s the summer where I had no job. I had nothing I was going to fall into, but I was pretty cool with learning about this. Something that has helped me also as a teacher, and I’ve taken also to my leadership, is that every term, every semester, I would set my own personal, professional goals. I would always pick, okay, what is something that I am not very good at, or what is something I want to learn more about? So, it was different things at different semesters, and I think at that time, it was, okay, I need to improve or increase my competency as a leader. If I am going to venture into this, I need to do that. So, that was the turning point for me. It coincided. My personal goal coincided with me being outside a job and seeing myself more and more in those spaces where I was tasked to support other teachers. 

20:17
Chief Ruckus Maker: Danny
If I reflect back to you, if I heard you right, you were sort of transitioning in between roles and jobs and locations. You found the podcast, found out about the ruckus maker, and the mastermind joined that with the goal of growing competence in terms of school leadership. Is that. Is that correct? Did I miss anything? 

20:41
Ene
No, that’s exactly it. That’s exactly it. 

20:46
Chief Ruckus Maker: Danny
And you found out through the podcast. So I think that that makes a lot of sense. Did you have any fear or reservation in terms of joining the program? 

21:01
Ene
I will backtrack a bit to how I joined the program.  I know I had listened to the podcast. I had stumbled upon one episode, and I went on to another and another, and I reached out at the end of the podcast where it says, you can reach out. And I did reach out and I sent an email, and I was surprised that you responded because I do. 

21:26
Chief Ruckus Maker: Danny
Everybody’s always surprised. I don’t know why, but tell me why you were surprised, too. 

21:32
Ene
I do. I do a lot of cold calls and, you know, for people, for a lot of spaces, speakers and writers and all of those people, I think sometimes they are swamped. They have very crazy schedules. Their inboxes are full or it’s handled by somebody else, and they are not able to keep track of those things.  I wasn’t really expecting a response, but I just wanted to, oh, just put it out there that this was really beneficial to me and I wanted to say something about it. And in many instances, in many of those spaces, especially with the cost of what it takes to, I sort of pulled back from reaching out because I’m like, I see the cost of stuff and I’m like, this is not for me. 

22:21
Ene
But even after I joined, after I reached, I think I was more. I was motivated to holler at other people. I’ve been able to reach out to other people. I’ve done webinars and I reached out to maybe the speaker and, oh, they responded. And I reached out to somebody else that has resources on TPT and I said, oh, I used your resource. I use your worksheet or something. And this and this were the result. And they’re like, oh, thank you for the feedback. And I’m like, oh, this is not just junk mail to you. That response from you was amazing in so many ways. And yes, the. The rest is history, or here I am now. 

23:16
Chief Ruckus Maker: Danny
Can I ask about the cost? It’s okay if you don’t want to talk about it, but, you know, it’s a good investment in terms of US dollars, and we’re certainly not going to talk about what anybody invests, including you. But I think what I want to over communicate is that probably because I’ve lived around the world, probably because my wife is from Zimbabwe, I have a realization that life just looks different. Depending on where you’re at. And so what I really want the listener to hear is that if you are a ruckus maker, we’ll make it work.. And so you had some reservation about that, but what was it like for you to like, I guess work past that because you didn’t know how I’d respond as well.  I don’t know what it was like for you to experience the conversation we had. So is there anything there that you could shed light in case there’s a leader outside the US who might have wanted to join but didn’t think that we would make it possible? 

24:34
Ene
So one thing that has stayed with me is the openness to have a conversation about joining the ruckus maker, whether I was able to afford the investment in US dollars or not. Right. And I think for many people, for many other PD’s, many other professional development, for educators, there’s no openness to have that conversation that people who want to access these are from different parts of the world or in different stations. The investment wise wasn’t scary, but when I think about the conversion in my own currency, that’s when the panic comes in. Right. But just having that opportunity to be able to talk with you about it and then at the point to talk with Joe about it, I’m like, okay, I think I can push beyond myself to even make that investment. 

25:33
Ene
I remember when I started having the conversation with you, I was talking to my brother in law and I was asking him what do you think is good to put in as an investment for this? And he was like, okay, what are you willing to invest in yourself every month? So that was the question he asked me. What am I willing to invest in myself every month? And I’m like, oh, I’m able to do this. I’m able to take a chunk, a percentage of my salary, to invest in my personal development. And if this is one of those avenues for it, yes, then by all means yes. But that openness to have that conversation, that is not one size fits all was a tremendous difference for me. 

26:19
Chief Ruckus Maker: Danny
Thank you for sharing that, because it’s quite personal. And I just want to say how muchI respect and honor the sacrifice that you and all our members make. Some figure out a way to, how to use school resources. There’s a lot that use personal as well. And it doesn’t like, what’s the word, like, not come to my attention. It’s not, it’s not something I take for granted, I guess, is the way I want to say it. Let’s move topics. So then you’re in it, right? What was it like when you first showed up? What was it like to join the ruckus maker mastermind? 

27:02
Ene
I like adventures. I’m not thrown off by novelty. I might be stunned to silence for the first couple of minutes, but the excitement and the appeal of adventure just draws me in. And in just a matter of time, I am right in from head to toe. And so the group that I joined was very diverse. I think that’s also, that was also pivotal to my enjoyment of the ruckus makers because so, like, the group I joined was made up of educators from around the world, right? It was. It had such an international community. It was such an international community. So people from the states working in the Middle east, people from different parts of Africa working in different parts of Africa, people from Europe working in the Middle east or in other parts of Europe. So it looks like everybody was out of home in some way or the other. And that made me feel very at home. It made me feel very at home. So it was beautiful. And thinking back, I was thinking about it, I think two weeks ago in one of our meetings where we were just talking through Rocketmaker experience, and it just, I just had to realize and recognize that it was just the individual differences that held so much meaning in the membership. The individual differences, the individual experiences, the differences in the length of experiences or in the settings that people walked in. So that has been really great. That has been really great. It’s made me see education from so many different lenses. It’s made me be, I know multiple intelligences are used differently, right. 

29:05
Ene
But I want to use it this way in the sense that I come in with my own intelligence, and then I have five or four other group members that come in with theirs, and I leave the group taking away those other four. So I’m like, oh, I’m all the better for it, but because of that diversity. So it’s been an amazing one. 

29:25
Chief Ruckus Maker: Danny
And I think for us, these stateside, the group meets Monday and sometimes changes because of time zone and stuff. But noon and 01:00 p.m. Is what it is for us. What is that normally for you? It’s a Monday evening. 

29:43
Ene
So it’s Monday evening, 06:00 p.m. On some occasions, and then 07:00 p.m. When the clock changes stateside. 

29:53
Chief Ruckus Maker: Danny
Did anything surprise you? So you got these multiple intelligences, the worldviews.  Of your peers from around the world. Did anything else sort of surprise you when you joined? 

30:08
Ene
Surprise, surprise. I would just say the fact that we all have very similar challenges and schools are very alike in so many ways because they deal with humans that are so very alike in so many ways. I would say that was a surprising part that there were a lot of. As much as schools are unique in different regions and following different school structures and curriculum, there’s so much that we have in common, so there was so much that we could benefit from. I thought I would be really. I thought I would really stick out like a sore thumb, but I don’t feel that way because I think, oh, we have a lot in common. We have a lot in common with the spaces and with the people that we have got to interact with in our school settings. 

31:03
Chief Ruckus Maker: Danny
I’d love to hear what you would consider, I guess, the most helpful lessons or takeaways and how did you apply those in your setting? 

31:14
Ene
There are many of those.  I would try to start from the beginning. I would start from the books. I will start with books.  So during the masterminds, which happens every Monday, we get to do. We get to share from books that we are reading. And I would say different books have made tremendous differences in my leadership journey. When I was thinking about this, right, I talked about what models, what tools I have been able to take away. I will start from the book part. So from the books. I sound like I’m saying so many things at the same time, but, yeah, let’s start from the book part. A book that comes to mind. I can’t remember the author. I think it’s a John somebody reboot. Oh, I should remember the name because it was such a remarkable one. Yes, but it was rebooted. I remember that part. It was a reboot. It was a John person that was the author. The conversations were great. The conversations around the book, chapter after chapter, were great, but something that stayed with me was the broken, open hearted warriors. And I’m like, I think it was a chapter that had to deal with vulnerability. But, you know, I had never been your authentic self. That was the phrase, being your authentic self. And in education spaces and in recent times, words are thrown around so very often, and many times they are overused or they lose their meaning. And I think being your authentic self was one of those kinds of phrases for me. But when these authors packaged it and presented it as broken, open hearted warrior, I’m like, that just stuck. 

33:15
Ene
And what was he trying to say? He was just trying to talk about you showing up. Even though you have been hard hit, even though you have been hurt by the system, by the people in the system, by burnout, by your own tasks and responsibilities, you can still show up open and willing to give of yourself, to receive from others and to wrestle through it. So that’s where the broken open heartedness comes in. And I thought that was phenomenal and that’s something I’ve applied. And like, even if I work in a system that, yeah, he has his down days, he has his issues, but I just keep reminding myself that, oh, na, you have been bit down by this system, but you can still show up. You can still show up with all your fragments. 

34:02
Ene
You can still show up and pour out to others. You can still show up and be available to others. You can still show up and receive from others. And you know that it’s not going to be, it might not just be coasting through. You might have to wrestle through some things still, but it’s okay. That’s it. It’s okay to be you. It’s okay to feel all the feels and still show up.  So that’s from that book. That was amazing. There are many books. There are many books that have stayed with me. Not many. A few of them. I know demystifying disability was one of those. And I remember it was at such a time where I was having conversations about special education with some of my other friends who are not part of the ruckus makers. So that was really helpful. 

34:52
Ene
It was helpful to get things right. It was helpful to get the language right. It was helpful to get meaning and associate meanings to things. So the books have been great. Another benefit has been tools. So as part of the ruckus makers, we have this automatic school thing where we are a mastermind group, as a big group, as a larger group of many more multiple mastermind groups, we come together and I think, Danny, you share different tools from time to time, right? So those tools have been very helpful. So sometimes I’m able to just take a tool as is and go through it and fill it out, and I’m like, oh, this is great. This, this works. This is so very helpful. This has simplified things. The first two were one of those ones that stood out to me. The goal setting, the one that had the eight pieces. Yes, the goal setting one. And it was really helpful to set up goals. And this was not just as an.edu leader. This was not just for goals as it relates to the school space where I work, even personal goals, like my sleep habits and my eating habits, it was very helpful in setting that up. And then lastly, with the tools thing has been the fact that I’m able to get tools from other members of the mastermind.  I belong to the alligator catchers, right. And I’ve had other principals that have used certain tools in their spaces, in their schools, and they’re like, oh, this has been very helpful. So maybe we have a conversation or someone is on the hot seat and they’re like, oh, this, you could use this. I’ve used this. Oh, you could tweak it. And I’m like, oh, wow, this is great. One of those tools was shared by a principal who was in the Middle east now, I think Tunisia. Yes. And it was one of those. Yes, Kevin, it was one of those pre resumption checklisting. Oh, my goodness. It was so helpful. 

So at the beginning, at the end of last school year, there were so many moving parts, and my head was going crazy in so many ways. And we were having a conversation as a group, and he shared a tool, a checklist that he’s used, like a whole excel sheet with different tasks and different names, with different people responsible, with timelines. And I’m like, why didn’t I have this my first year in this space? So that’s a great benefit of being part of the mastermind, the fact that I could get tools, not just tools you share in the automatic school, but tools that other school leaders are using and have been successful with using in their own spaces. 

37:48
Chief Ruckus Maker: Danny
Well, speaking of tools,yes, the ruckus maker eight step goal setting tool is certainly a member favorite. That’s something I sometimes share out there in workshops. I don’t know if I can give that one away for free. I might give that one away for free on the website so the listener can check that out. But the thing is that most people, they set a goal, they set a deadline, they have a to do list, like, how am I going to get there? They make their plan, but they’re missing five actually crucial steps that I think are quite unique. And might be the first time you saw them. So I’m glad to hear that resonated with you. And you mentioned that it works in your personal life, too, which is true, because you have personal goals. But we also had the ruckus maker mindset tool, which talks about the fundamentals, right? Eating, sleeping, moving, meditating, and unplugging. And that’s another way of just checking in with yourself.  How are you, which area would you like to improve? What. How would you evaluate your performance now and what, about 90 days from now? So appreciate that. And then somebody like Kevin, there’s so many generous members, of course, in your group and all the groups, but there’s. There’s a free flow of resources, which I have a few bones to pick or pet peeves or things like enemies, I guess, in education. And one of those enemies would just be the idea of isolation and keeping things to ourselves where, you know, there’s. There’s not really a winner in that case. Like, maybe your students, maybe you. 

39:24
Chief Ruckus Maker: Danny
But if you shared, everybody would win. And that’s part of our ethos here. When you get better, everybody wins. And it’s about free flowing and sharing of resources.  I really appreciate you, highlighting that. I think here would be a good spot just to pause for a moment to get some messages in from our sponsors. And when we come back, I’m curious what you would consider your biggest, most exciting results you achieved within the mastermind. 

Chief Ruckus Maker: Danny
And we’re back and she’s here talking about her experience right within the ruckus maker, mastermind, what life and leadership was like prior to joining and what her experience has been like. Like I said, and then now I want to talk about before the break, I said, you know, what was that most exciting result you achieved? What would you consider the most exciting result you achieved? 

41:01
Ene
Most exciting. So two things come to mind. One, one big thing. I know every week we check in on each other with that. What’s your one big thing for the week? I would say that’s a big achievement in the sense that it’s helped me to refocus my week. So my week is not filled with a long to -do list. It’s not filled with a whole lot of length, sorry. A whole length of to-do list is not filled with a whole length of so many goals or so many things to accomplish or so many fires to put out. But just having to channel my big goals for the term and all of that into one big thing for each week has really made me successful. So I’ve been able to break things into bite size. Bite sizes, yes. That I’m able to follow through every week. And every week I’m able to check, oh, this is my one big thing for the week. What are the things I need to do to achieve this one big thing? What are the measures I need to take to achieve this one big thing? And that’s a practice that has been made possible by the every week check in that we do at the mastermind. Very closely related to that is the fact that from your podcast, I think that was the first time I stumbled upon OKRS. And so it got me rabbit trails. I think, for me, I get stuck when I, when I see something exciting. And that was one of those. So I did see it. I did read your blog post about it, and then I started digging. 

42:48
Ene
I even got signed into Trello and did whole goals and had my OKRS. And I shared it with some of the mid level leaders as well. So that was very closely tied to my one big thing. So it helped me to narrow and, yes, narrow my attention, narrow my focus onto one big thing. And that way I am not, I’m not burnt out. That way I’m not floundering. That way I can see specific areas of growth or specific needs being met. I have a board in my office and I have one big thing. So it’s four weeks in a month, so I typically would have four big things.. And I’ve also shared it with other leaders who report to me. And I’m like, okay, what’s your one big thing this week? I don’t want you to focus on so many things. 

43:45
Ene
I just want you to think about the big picture and break it into little goals and ask yourself, what is the one that I will focus on? So that is an area of success, I would say. And thanks to the mastermind, I’m getting better at that. 

44:02
Chief Ruckus Maker: Danny
Fantastic.. Objectives and key results. That comes from a book, too, named measure, what matters. John Doerr wrote that one. We read it within our community. I certainly love the book. A lot of the members started adopting that as a sort of a more evolved and better way to approach goals versus smart goals. So just check it out. If that might be good for you. Ruckus maker. Who’s listening? I think you started. Joe was your coach, and I might be making this up. I don’t know if it’s true or not, but I feel like he texted me once, too. Did the mastermind help you negotiate a higher salary as well? We don’t have to get into numbers. We don’t have to talk about numbers and stuff, but is that, are you comfortable, you know, sharing that? That sounds cool. 

44:55
Ene
It did. I actually wrote it down as one of the benefits, one of the things I have gotten from the mastermind. And I remember when my contract was ending for the first year, and we were having talks about the second year, and I know things were tight economically and all of that, and I know the teachers were trying to get a raise. It hadn’t been possible. I felt like there’s no money. Is it a good time to ask? I very clearly can remember that conversation with Joe, and he was like, no, you need to ask. Like, you need to ask. And he gave all the tips. He gave the whole speech about it, and I’m like, yeah, yeah. And then he was like, okay, so you ask for this, what is it called? Cost of living cola. 

45:47
Ene
And that was the first time I was hearing that. Yeah. From him. And he was like, okay, so, you need to ask for cola rates, and you need to do this. You need to send an email. And so he just went through with it. So talk about it. I had that opportunity to talk about it with Joe, sort of like, do a demo, ask, talk about it with Joe. And that’s something else. I think the ruckus makers, mastermind groups, have that safety of the space to be able to not just vent, but even bounce ideas off or even do practice sessions or having difficult conversations. It’s amazing. It’s amazing. I did that demo with Joe, and I think Anita was in on that call as well. 

46:35
Ene
And she talked about her own fears and struggle, especially as women and workspace shenanigans and all of that. But because of that conversation and that demo, I put an email down. I did. I put the email, crafted it, and sent it off. And, yes, I did get the raise. Yeah. And I’m like, okay, I can do hard things. I can. I can do hard things. But that was really helpful. That’s a safe space to practice. To practice having hard conversations or not selling yourself short. Yeah, that was a mastermind thing.. 

47:20
Chief Ruckus Maker: Danny
Brilliant. I think where I want to sort of end is, how would you describe your light? Well, and before we get to the questions I asked everybody, but how would you describe your life and leadership now? Like, how’s it different and why is that important? 

47:40
Ene
Why is it? How is it different? It’s different because I’m too ready, I think I’m too ready.  I have a toolbox. I have, like, a toolbox. I’m kitted with tools. I’m kitted with things that I could use. So I would say in that sense that I am. It’s different. I’m better prepared. I’m better prepared to face uncertainties. I’m better prepared to face hard situations. I’m better prepared to have difficult conversations. And then just that thought that each Monday when I show up to my alligator catchers group and someone’s on the hot seat, whether it is me or someone else, and that question is asked, how may we serve you? I know that I’m going away with something. Even if it had nothing to do with a need that I have, I know that I’m going away with something. And every time I remember the first year, it was like clockwork. Every time I come on a Monday, my rest of the week is very different because I am living with things. I can immediately apply. And that’s. That’s something. That’s something for me. When I read books, when I attend training, I always want it to be such an experience that I’m able to immediately apply my learning. If I’m not able to immediately apply my learning, it’s. It’s useless to me. So having that experience Monday after Monday. Wow. Has. Has made a significant impact in my leadership. 

49:14
Ene
The way I interact with staff, the way I interact with other leaders, the way I slow down and double takes on having certain conversations because I haven’t planned for it. Even the way I. I make comebacks when I’ve made a mistake. Very different. Very different. 

49:32
Chief Ruckus Maker: Danny
Beautiful. Well, thank you for sharing all that. We’ll move on to the questions I asked all my guests. And so. And if you’re going to put a message on all school marquees, all right, around the world for a single day, what would your message be? 

49:48
Ene
It will be, live well, laugh often, love much. And that’s because I think you only can fully leave when you’re fully invested in that experience and in the school setting, that experience is teaching and learning. So you’re living well if you are fully immersed, fully invested in the teaching and learning experience for teachers as well as for students. Laugh often, and life is hard by itself, right? So we need to take as many opportunities as possible to laugh. We could laugh about mistakes. We could laugh about mishaps. We could laugh about funny things. We could laugh about silly things. We could laugh about the experiences we are having with our kids. And then love a lot. I mean, people come in very needy teachers as well as students come in very needy to our spaces. So we can love a lot. 

50:47
Ene
And there are little kind gestures that would. That would show that we do love, that we do care. So leave. Well, laugh often. Love much will be on every school marquee for a day. 

51:01
Chief Ruckus Maker: Danny
How about building your dream school? You didn’t have any limitations in terms of resources. Your only constraint is your ability to imagine. What would Na’s dream school be like? What would be the three guiding principles? 

51:16
Ene
I think that was the tricky part where I. I couldn’t, How I put it. Now, I couldn’t put it into principles, right? I couldn’t put it into principles, but I did have. I thought of three things. First, it was. I thought of two things that come in threes, right? First, it was the people. I could think of doing a school with three people, myself and two other educator friends that I have. And when I thought about it, my dream school, I would want them to be part of my dream school, because I see them as standing for certain things. Great at communication and community building, great at rigorous, and then great at research. And I think those things are very central to a successful school. 

52:05
Ene
We don’t sacrifice rigor, but we also are big on community building, which has to do with communications and relationships. And then we have research, informed practice, which would definitely mean we’re learning continuously. We are growing, we’re improving our craft, adopting promising practices that are beneficial for the kids. So, yes, I did think of three people, and then I did think of those three things, because those three people represented those regal relationships and communication and then research. So, yes, those things will be fundamental in my school if I was to establish one. 

52:44
Chief Ruckus Maker: Danny
All right, brilliant. So, we covered a lot of ground today and of everything we discussed. What do you think is the one thing you want a ruckus maker to remember? 

52:56
Ene
What do I want a ruckus maker to remember? I think I would use a quote. There’s a quote by Dylan Williams, and everybody who knows me enough, close enough in education would know that I very quickly would refer to it, and that every teacher needs to improve not because they are not good enough, but because they can be even better. And I would say that’s something I think every educator should live with. We shouldn’t get our heads dwelling in the past, not because the past is not good. Right. But because we can do better. When we know better, we can do better. And how can we know better? We need to put ourselves out there. We need to join communities where we’re constantly learning and we’re constantly reshaping our ideas and our ideals. So, yes, there’s room for improvement, not because we’re not good enough, but because we can be even better. And I think everybody, a part of everybody, wants to be better.